Ovation Founder & CEO
Brigham Young University Master of Business Administration (MBA), Marketing and Innovation
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How did you get to where you are today? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path? What inspired you to work on this startup idea?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
Well, first of all, thanks for having me on. Um, as I told you right before we started recording that this is Ah, you know, I don't know if anything, any one thing I'm gonna say is gonna be that impactful to, ah, to students. But, um, in my life, I have learned so much from just hearing a vast array of experiences from other people. Um, and so I I appreciate that, and hopefully something that resonates with someone, but, um, how did they get to where I am today? So initially, I've always had a passion for building value, right? That's something where it's actually more than a passion. It's an obsession. Um, so out of when I was still in college, I started a nonprofit organization. Then I went to New York City, started working at an advertising agency and just couldn't deal with it. It was I felt like, um, the value that I was creating was so insignificantly small that I just like I couldn't do it. So I started a company, and I built that for a couple of years, sold that went back, and I got my MBA because I felt like I didn't really know enough about business. I studied advertising, so I went back on my MBA Start another company during my MBA actually ended up winning. Um, a lot of money with your business competitions. One actually more money than any other student. Uh, BYU has ever won. And it was really cool, because something that I learned from my from that experience was that, you know, I wasn't the smartest in my class. I didn't I didn't really didn't have the best grades. There is a lot of classes I struggled with, but man people, um you could leverage your strengths in different ways. And that was something that for me I felt so blessed to really learn that. And so when I went, um, on, Teoh went to PWC after that, had great experience doing management consulting. Um, but I still felt like a cog of a cog in a big machine. And so I wanted to build value and ah, and so that's, you know, my whole, um after I graduated from college and starting the first company, I just knew that I wanted Teoh build my own companies to build and create that value and one thing that always a lot of a lot of times, friend, that I've talked to the thing that holds them back. Is there afraid? RoWhite of they're afraid of, uh, missing out. They're afraid of missing out on the job that they have. But at the end of the day, we This is a mantra that I live my life by every day, which is choose extraordinary for ordinary will always be waiting, right? And the the, uh now that ordinary, then the my philosophy is how do I elevate my ordinary right? So the first thing I did was I graduated from college. Okay, so they're all of a sudden, like I've elevated my ordinary. The next thing I did is I went and worked in ad agency in New York City's now got connections out there. I could go back a work out there. The next thing I did is I went out for summer. I did summer sales, and so that way, it's like, OK, worst case scenario, I get a six figure job doing doing sales. Um, then I got my m b a. Then I went and I worked at PWC, and so everything that I've done. Ah, when I worked, when I wasn't specifically starting a company was to elevate my ordinary. So that way, if I didn't I don't have any fear of falling flat on my face. Because even if I fail and I lose everything, it's like my ordinaries, you know, pretty good. You know, um and so it's not scary for me. Teoh, do a start up. Ah, and that's something that I'm I feel really blessed by. And that's something I'm really excited about. Um, and, uh, then in terms of absolute of the career path Now, in terms of the startup that I'm in right now, um, what we do innovation is we are a guest feedback solution for restaurants and retailers where we help them to, you know, find and fix problems both from an individual. And from an organizational standpoint, um, and that that concept of connecting the companies and the customers is one that I am really fascinated and solving, and that was a piece of advice that someone gave me. Don't fall in love with your solution when you're starting a company, fall in love with a problem, and that's something I always loved and I tried, like, focus on which is really solving that problem. And for me, it's all about that connection of, ah, digital consumer and the physical world that there needs to be a better bridge. And so that's what that's what we built with Ovation through our actionable guest feedback tool.

Can you walk us through your first few weeks when you started working on this project? How did things change over the next few months?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
all about logistics recruiting, right? I I, um, actually wrote an article, and it's called your first hour as an entrepreneur. And so you're sitting there and all of a sudden, boom, you've got this, like, great idea that comes to you. Well, what do you do with that idea? And the first thing is that you really need to take a step back to understand the problem. It's so easy to come up with. Solutions have been tried to find a problem based on that solution. What you really need to dio is find a, uh, find a problem and the unique solution to it. Then the next thing that you want to dio is we went and I just researched. I came up with 10 different ways that someone with that problem, what they would search for in Google. And I looked what's already out there who's doing something similar? How are they doing it? Ah, and then do I still need to exist now? Ovation was probably the 50th 60th idea that I went through this process with, um and then I realized OK, I understand the problem. Understand? My customer base? Um, now I need someone to help build a prototype. And so I went out to my connections and I said, Here's the concept. Here's the opportunity. I want to build a prototype and test this out. Can you build it for me? And, um And so we went into business together and to this day is still my business partner. Now, granted, the problem that we set out to solve has changed slightly as the mawr that we got into it, the more that we understood what some of the problems were in, what some of the problems weren't. Um, and our customer has changed, right? So when we first started, it was me, um, selling the product right. I had I had a business partner to help me out, but it was really like me selling the product. And then ah, and then as we got going, it was like, OK, well, one of the things we realized was the customer that I was selling to wasn't necessarily the customer that we wanted or the customer that would lead us to $100 million a $1,000,000,000 company. And so what would guide us a $1,000,000,000 company? Was we needed to shift to our customer was and shifting that customer helped us focus our solution mawr, um, on solving their specific problem as opposed to such a broad problem that we started off with. But honestly, it was like you have your you're very basic logistics to start off of getting everything set up, making sure you're 83 b is filled out when you set up the company. If you don't know what an 83 b is, find out what an 83 B is because I had a buddy and he lost millions of dollars because he didn't fill out a one page thing. So you know it's so critical to get that 83 b, um, locked and loaded in there. So it's in the beginning. It was a lot of like the company had a lot of logistics to set up. And then it was about finding those first few customers who were willing to really, really pre beta tested, um, and I really Alfa tested and then getting it out there and, ah, you know, slowly realizing over the next few months, um, that we were onto something, and so I eventually quit my job I went 18 months without a salary working innovation. Um, and that was because I've always been preparing for this, and so I saved up. Saved up, saved up, saved up that way. When I quit my job, I knew that I had 18. Was about 20 months runway left, um, to start ovation because, you know, you can't You can't take a salary when you're only making a a few $100 revenue.

What were the challenges in building the initial team and how did you overcome them? How did the team's composition, dynamics, time, and resource commitment evolve?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
shins. So initially, one of the challenges being part time. You know, I still had my job as I was working on innovation, and that is really challenging, because I am not gonna short change someone who's giving me a paycheck. Right? So how do I not shortchange them? Not short change my family and still be working on a start up? Uh, it was challenging, especially because the hours that my customers were working are going to be. You know, um, specifically worked at the restaurant and retailers. The down times are that, like, you know, 10 to 12 and then that, you know, three toe, you know, 3 to 5. Those are the times that air gonna be down. Well, I'm working right. And so it was. It was a real challenge to do that. So I got some help from someone who can was able to talk to customers during those times, and then I would talk to them in off hours and weekends and things like that. Um, but part time was really challenging to dio, but it was something that I felt like for me and for my family, I needed to be part time first. Um, the other thing that I talked about was initially I didn't have a lot of big connections. Sure. Now we have the former CEO of Burger King, Popeyes, Tim Horns, Planet Hollywood on on our board. But when I first started this, you know, I didn't know anyone in the restaurant retail space, Really? And so I would call up, Um, you know, I call up Miguel of Two Jacks pizza, right? I would call our Manny of Two Jacks pizza. I'd call a bluesy of Lucy's Brazilian. Um, I would be literally calling up these stores, going there and selling them because they were the ones who I could talk to. The problem is that those small customers, it's a totally different company. And so the challenge was, I was building, Ah, a company for the wrong customers. And so I was listening to my customers. But you you don't just listen to your customers. You have to listen to the right customers. And so now we understand who are customer is you know what what they look like. A linked in what they're, um their background is what their responsibilities are and were able to much better build a product for them, speak to them. But that was a huge challenge of the beginning because, especially as we're trying to go upstream, you know, they were like okay, but this seems like something for a one location shop. I own 200 locations, so I don't know why I should be talking to you. And how do you pivot the product? Pivot the pitch to sell to those customers. So it's really important to do that. Another thing around customers that's challenging is, you know, the previous startup I had I built. I built an algorithm to translate social media data into gift recommendations. Well, that's all good and well, and we did a lot of customer research on that. The problem is, we did research with the end user. We did research with a person who was looking for the gifts. The problem is, those aren't the people who are going to buy the product that people were going to buy the product. Well, they were the ones like, you know, Amazon, like Macy's, like Sears, who would buy that algorithm and put it on their on their website. So once I learned I've been doing the research with the wrong people, then we had do research for these folks. So then we started in research with them. We get all the way to, like contracting of the algorithm, and then all of a sudden I realized that, well, hey, there's a hole technical component to this where there's going to be someone who runs the website that we have to work with and they're actually our user. And so what we found was that you need to map out your customers to realize who's using you. Who's paying for you, who's implementing you? Um, and maybe there's other categories as well. But don't, uh, don't count out those users. So, for example, we work with a lot of restaurants. Well, we could build a product for the customer. That's really good. We could build a product for corporate. That's really good. But if we don't build a product that the managers air going to use, well, then that creates a problem because then they're not gonna use ovation, and then the customers are going to see the benefit. You know, corporate isn't going to the benefit, and so you have to look at all of your customers when you're building. Ah, company. Um, one of the challenge that we faced is unable to talk about this next question, I think. But it's funding, right. It's money because at the end of the day, here's what it comes down to. This is something that I learned through observation of, Ah, a lot of great startups. I went. I was able to go out and be a part of 500 startups, which is a really cool program out in. I went to their headquarters in the Bay Area, and it was It was an incredible program, really intense, and they bring in just tons of successful entrepreneurs, and I was able to listen to them and and ah, get some wisdom from them. And there is a pattern that I saw, Um, and there's a pattern that I found in all the podcasts I've listened to of other successful entrepreneurs, and and the pattern is this. Here's how you win at the start of game, you stay alive and excited long enough to get lucky, and that's it. Um, you have to stay alive. You have to have the money. If you don't have the money. You can't pay people. You can't make the product. You can do the marketing. So you have to have a way to get money in. Stay excited. You know, there comes a certain point in some of the starters have been involved with where I just didn't even want to goto work. I didn't want to work on the start if it wasn't interesting to me anymore. Um, and and one of the things I've done to overcome them, to stay excited is the fact that I've become obsessed with the problem that I'm solving right that connection of the digital consumer in the physical world. I feel that's such an interesting problem. And my, um, you know, ovation solution to that problem is one that I feel like is unique in that the world needs that in 10 years is going to be the norm. And I don't want to go to a restaurant in 10 years of my daughter and see a tool that's just like Ovation. But is innovation can I gave up to soon, right? So, um, and it's about keeping the team excited to sharing the vision of what's gonna happen. The future and then get lucky. At the end of the day, you I've seen so many successful entrepreneurs, but they they run out of excitement or money too soon, and they don't get a chance to get lucky. And in every single story. And I'm not saying this happens for everyone. I'm just saying with everyone that I've talked Teoh, every successful startup has had something happened where it's like and then this happened, and it's totally lucky. It's not something they did, but it was something that it was a breaking point was a turning point. It was this this point of inflection for the company, and it was not necessary. They didn't prepare for it, but they were prepared for it. Does that make sense? It happened to them out of luck. But had they not been moving forward and excited and coming up with, like, new solutions, new ideas trying to improve, that never would have happened. And so that's my That's what I have observed my observation, all formula for success, not necessarily my own. Stay excited, as I say alive and stay excited long enough to get lucky. Um and yeah, I think they were talking about funding next. But as I got some thoughts around the challenges around funding because it is, ah, really tough topic.

How did your venture get its first professional funding? What were the challenges and how were they overcome? How'd your fundraising efforts change in subsequent rounds?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
she's actually sitting right over there is my wife was cool with us not taking a salary and putting a bunch of money into evasion. So, you know, uh, she she let me be the first round of funding along with my business partner. And then, you know, after that, it was customers we got customers to pay us. And then as we built out the business model, um, we're like, OK, well, the only way this is gonna work is if we hire more people, and we feel like we have something special and we're at a point of like, Okay, we're here in Utah. Um, I couldn't raise money from my connections here in Utah because there was another competitors that had taken up a lot of funding. And there's actually there's my son in the background were here here in the office. It's a quarantine day, but my internet doesn't work very well in homes, and I have to work from here. Um, So, uh, we're at this point that I couldn't take funding for my connections and Utah and so what we're going to do, we had to leave. You have to go outside of Utah So what I did was I applied Teoh a start A program called 500 Startups. They in just a little bit of cash. And then, um, at the end, there's a demo day they help you and introduce you to investors. And so the first round of funding was was my business partner and I second round was our customers just getting them to pay us. And then we went to this incubator program or accelerator program and it was phenomenal was great. And at the end of that, I thought, OK, we've got an awesome pitch. We've got a dynamite team, we've got some great growth. So what are we going to do? We're just gonna go out there and investors are going to flock to us after Demo Day. Money is going to come pouring in. And next thing you know, we're unlike cover of Forbes is a unicorn. Didn't happen that way, right? How it actually happened was I had to take full time about 45 months, uh, to solely focus on fundraising. And so the team just had to, like, carry on without me. They had to do all the sales. All the customer success. I literally couldn't be. I couldn't do anything else but fundraise because it was so intense. One of the problems that we ran into is that working in the restaurant retail industry, you know, where he It's not sexy. It's not sexy. Eso people would say, Look, I love I love the horse. Your business is like, you know, you got good numbers. You're posting good growth. I like the horse. I like the jockey. You and your team. You seem like good folks. Um, you know, seem like you know, you You've done this startup thing before, Your passion. You're excited. Ah, you You're going about it the right way. I like the jockey, they would say, But the race, Zach, I just don't like the race. I can't do the brick and mortar industry. There's no scale there. It's really hard to grow this and that and this and that. I had 84 meetings before I found my lead investor. Now you know, I went in over 1000 dates Before I got married. I wrote a book about it, so I'm very familiar with rejection. But once I got married, I thought I was done with that kind of volume of rejection, but no, When I did them the start of, like I said 84 meetings before I found my lead investor. That is a lot of nose, right? When you get to meeting 20 you're like, OK, OK, this is like, this is tough, but we'll go OK, meeting like 30. You're like, all right, meeting 70 0 my doing. It's like you just started question your whole life when you get that money nose. And then finally I sent out the last call saying, Hey, we're not, you know, we're thinking about not even raising um sent it out to all of the people I had met with and one person got back and said, Yeah, I'll, uh, we want to take the lead. And so after that, um, you know, it took 134 meetings to raise a $1,000,000 but after that 84th meeting, it was a lot easier, but it just took this the next. You know, 132 is a lot of meetings to raise a 1,000,000 but we did it and ah, and it really helped us out a ton. And so um, but, you know, in terms of funding I've done, I've done Ah, just solely boots draft. I've done debt I've done Ah, you know, ah, initial venture funding or like, a Kickstarter campaign. So I've tried all of those all of those things, and and I will say that, um, I like the idea of having revenue and then going out there and raising a little bit of cash and, uh, growing on that, um, I think that's super important to get that that initial traction yourself.

How did you set the scope for your minimal viable product? How did you get to product-market fit? How did your product evolve over time?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
interesting thing, right? I don't think that that's, um, necessarily a stage that you get that you achieve as much as it is a process that you evolve, right? It's it's always finding a product market fit, because if you just say okay, here it is, um, that what happens is your competitors come up and they just, you know, copy at a lower price as our product market fit is an evolving thing of consistently listening to your market to build a better product, right? And so it's always that that intuitive process, But at the very first thing that we had was we had an app, and it was super simple. And this was an app that, you know, I thought this was going to be the company that the company was going to be an ipad app. Um, where you know, you get on there, select if he if you're happy or not, and then typing your your name and phone number. And that was like the initial. Actually, I think I have it downloaded in this laptop. But, um, that was that was the initial product. It was like, really, really simple. And so when I went to a developer, and I was like, Hey, I just need this out. Done. Um, you know, can you get it done by next weekend? It was like, Yeah, I mean, it's pretty easy to build. Doesn't have to look pretty or anything. There's a lot of ah designed templates out there. So that was my first iteration of it. Was solving the problem of making a better mousetrap for people to give feedback outside of online reviews. Um, and then from there it evolved as consumers, as art customers kept on giving us more and more things that they were looking for. And as we better understood, the problems that we were solving. Um And so we went for. And then when Cove it hit, right? Um, that was it. That was a huge, ah, huge shot to our market. And so our product had to change to meet the market demand and the fit of our product. Ah, had Teoh had to shift, you know, And one of the things that we did to shift our product was we focused. Um, a lot of times it's easy as you get going. What happened to us was we have a sales lead product road map where, as customers would say, Hey, all by ovation if you have this tool or if you haveOkay. So in terms of how the how the product evolved over time it shifted, It grew, Ah, I started off again with just the iPad app, and now we have everything from we have a dozen different integration points and ways that customers can engage. We have an app for the G M to respond. We have a huge back and system with full analytics, and so it's a matter of, um, the product market fit changed. And, like I was talking about with Cove it when that happened, we had to shift from doing operations and marketing for restaurants and retailers and brick and mortar companies to guest feedback for restaurants. And when we did, would we, you know, focus on the actual guest feedback for restaurants? The laying became very clear about the path forward, but it's very cloudy when you're doing a lot of things. You need to be very careful about letting large customers bully you around into changing your product into what they want. Now, if that's something that is universally wanted, great. But But it's so easy to become a deaf shop as a young startup starving for revenue. Um, but you have to fight that you have to build the right product solving the right problem, and you have to know what that is. Otherwise you've got these companies that are coming, going to come in and just they're gonna own your road map. And when you have prospects owning your roadmap, you are in grave danger of creating a A Me too, Um, a huge amount of features and no direction company. And so for us, we started to go down that path and the only thing that stopped us truly, um, it wasn't like my great leadership. It was a global pandemic. It was the fact that we had to change because everything was about to be different. Um, and we had to find our path in the new world, and that necessitated us to focus, to streamline. And that's enabled us to be a much more successful company with a much clearer vision for the future.

Who were your early users? What marketing channels, approaches, and marketing tools did you use to contact users? What worked and what didn't?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
here. Uses were just like my friends who had restaurants or retailers. And then, um, what we did was we came up with a list of 100 of five different verticals. We can't with 100 contacts. Each of those verticals we called them. We pitched him. Um, and we you know, we figured out who we really wanted to get in touch with. And there were some people who were, like, Yes, I need that. That that's a problem I have. Um and we had learned that problem from doing our research, But But again, in the long run, those weren't the customers that we that we needed to have. But they were the customers who were willing to pay us first. And, um, you know, we wouldn't be able to have the customers we have today if we didn't have those customers. And we built it up from one location, uh, companies to to location to 10 location to 100 location companies. And so that's how the product has evolved it with our customers. And to reach out to them, we just in cold calls. We've tried emailing. We've tried ads. We've tried e books. Um, But honestly, the best thing to get those initial customers was just looking them up on Google, calling them and asking them for the person who runs there, You know, online marketing. Um, and that's what we did at first. And now what we do is referrals, you know, as you go upstream. They don't respond as well to cold calls. They don't have their numbers published that respond to cold emails. Ah, and so they respond to referrals, and that's that's what we do now, and that's what's been working really well.

What changes would you attempt in customer targeting, acquisition process, and marketing tools in the later growth phase? Why?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
I would have started out initially with a better, um, more efficient board of advisers. We had a very informal border advisers and their mainly our early customers. I would have gone out there and said, Who who are your dream Customers act, um, and go out and find advisors who can get you those customers and compensate them for getting those customers. Um, I I would I would have taken, you know, uh, those connections cause we didn't have any connections in this space, and that was something that I feel like we really missed out on in the early days and something that we're really benefiting from now.

How'd you hire, incentivize, and track the progress of your marketing team including agencies and part-time workers to scale user base?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
and right now it's a lot of referrals. It's a lot of networking. Um, a lot of Ah, so I I do a podcast. I host a podcast called Given Ovation and we bring on industry experts and thought leaders, and they've been connected us with people's. That's been a great way to network. Um, but doing the podcast is actually a really interesting way to get people because you can, especially when you have, like, a more niche product. A lot of these people that I'm having on my podcast. They have never been interviewed before on a podcast. And so it's kind of like, Oh, wow, it's like they feel like I'm, like, important there. He's like interviewing me on a podcast. Um, and so that's something I would highly recommend. Is it a great weight of network two people? And you know, I'm not asking them to buy anything. I'm just asking him to come on and let's let's talk shop, Um, but in terms of how do we incentivize and track the progress of marketing sales? Obviously, it's like you just set those KP eyes. What are the what s So I would say first of all you need to do it yourself. You can't outsource the development of a sales process. You can't outsource the development of a marketing process of a partnership process. We've tried to do it a couple of times. It hasn't worked. You've got to do it. You come up with the process, right? You come up with the ah, the you know, the Okay, ours. What are the objectives and key results? And but you need to be able to do those things and set those goals and make sure that things that you're doing are leading to the success of those goals. And then you bring someone in and you show them the process. You say, Here's what I did. Um, so you know, you go and do this, but tell me how to improve it. Ah, where you'll always struggle is if you go and you say I got a product. Hey, Joe. Hey, Jane. Come over here and, like, sell this product for me. You've got to sell it. You've got to figure out how to do that and then bring people on to replicate what you've done. And if you don't know how to do it, and if or in the case of like, we shifted strategies and now it's a different sales process. Well, we've got a pivot to so we're, you know, back on the sales on the sale circuit. Teoh, talk to customers and try to figure out how to close these deals.

Who were your competitors when you started and how did the competition evolve? How did you create a competitive advantage and a unique selling proposition?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
So one of our big competitors when we started was podium. Um, they did a lot of online reviews, and that was something that we looked at as we were looked at as a big competitors podium. Um, and honestly, when I started ovation, I hadn't heard of podium. Um, so there was, like, nothing that we did to copy podium. Ah, but we're just going about ah, similar problem in a different way for a different vertical. And so one of the ways that we really positioned ourselves was, um, vertical focused. And so we did a very deep solution for a specific vertical. And now, as we've been evolving, our companies have very much diverged. And we're much Maurin the about the feedback. Um, and you know that that with that came a different set of competitors. And so the way that we position ourselves is how we basically took a step back and said, If we were to reinvent receipt surveys in 2020 what would they look like? And it would be Omni Channel. It would have be I It would have to be really simple for the customer, really easy for management to respond, and engage in a conversation and and that's what we're doing. And what our competition is doing is pretty much the same process since 1995. And by the way, that process really was pioneered by one of our advisers who has said, Hey, that old way is dead, you know, ovation, you're the future, and so that's why she came onto our advisory board.

What responsibilities and decisions did you handle at work? What were the challenges? What strategies were effective in dealing with these challenges?

Based on experience at: Customer Experience Management Consultant, PricewaterhouseCoopers
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
One of the things that I did was a lot of financial projections. Um, we looked at the ramifications of a certain change that large companies would would make such as, for example, when you shift from one billing system to another 1,000,000,000 system when you buy up seven companies and now you're consolidating how customers air build, what happens is that customer experience changes. So what we did is, he went through, found all of the known differences. Um, we understood the customer experience of how big of an issue would that be? How much could that lead to churn? Ah, and then we find it. We did the financial forecasts on how do you move people from one product to another based on the customer experience? But in order to do that, we had to take all of the products and put them into a financial model and be able to forecast out, you know, looking at historical 15 years, using those numbers, projecting forward 15 years to create the strategy. So something for me was I was not super familiar with, Ah, with Excel to that detail, I had no clue how Deep Excel goes and that was something where it was just really long days. I remember putting in 17 hours Saturdays, working Thanksgiving, working weekends like nights, mornings I get there a Tsevegnyam I would leave at 3 a.m. it was a lot of time to try to learn all that I needed to learn. Ah, but at the end, I think what it comes down to is people. And this is what I look for in business partners. And that's what people really respect. I found in business, which is innovation, communication, dependability, Asian, right. I like things to be consistent but innovation, like do things better than do things better than what you're asked. Come with new ideas, communication clearly communicate what's getting done when they're going to get done problems and then dependability ation. Do what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it. If you have those three things, people will want to work with you because you're bringing good ideas. You're talking about it in a very efficient way, and you're doing it and you're doing it on time so they can trust you. Um, so those those air three attributes that I found in business, no matter what circumstance, whether you're working for someone or whether you're building your own business, that you need to exhibit and look for in others.

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Aug 17 2020
I would say Biggest thing is, especially as a student, get a job toe, learn not to earn. Okay, uh, this is a time when you take the job that you always wish, um, take take a job that you feel like will teach you the most. And sometimes that job is gonna be started your own business. I would also say do as many informational interviews as you can and talk to them about their daily life. Because what happens is when you think about it from a high level perspective of Ah, man, that job seems so cool. Okay, maybe. But when you talk to someone who has that job and you ask them, what is your day to day like, it could be terribly boring. So for me, I thought that the dream of going and working ever advertising agency would be amazing. I went there and it wasn't. It wasn't what I wanted. It wasn't what would fulfill me. And so, um, for other people, it would be great. But I didn't understand the day today. I just understood what were the creative meetings like, what were the high level strategy? Um, not not the nitty gritty. That really was zero value add and very like, boring. Um, and so do a lot of informational interviews. Keep them to 15 to 20 minutes. Be very pithy with them, and ah, and And find the job that you feel like you would want and do that one other thing that I would say in terms of parting advice would be I want you to imagine your life, Um, that today So much is you just got a $1,000,000,000 deposit in your bank account. Okay. What is your life in five years? Look like right out what your perfect week looks like in five years. Um, And then take every section of your week and ask yourself, Why do I want that? Why do I want that? Why do I want that? And use the Toyota five y methodology and and drill down to understand What are those things? Because when you remove the barrier of money and you just look at what do you truly want to be happy? Uh, what you'll find is that you could do those things for the dollar. There's no reason that you can't live your life is a billionaire with a dollar when you go down to the core values the essence of of what you truly want. Um And then, you know, obviously, they said in the beginning, uh, choose to live an extraordinary life when ordinary one will always be waiting.