So, I can't have a long I think. Ah, way of you How I got to the career path I'm in today. Um, I think the ah, the interesting thing about product management is there's not really still forces or, um, college classes. You take, you don't get a degree and product management, so you kind of have to find out about it, um, through others. And so, um, one of the things I think is I Just when I started out of college, I had an internship. I love technology. I love business. That's what My degrees in, um, and I knew I wanted to kind of help manage people, is what I thought. And so I went to Target started there. Um, and I learned that I really didn't like retail. That wasn't my favorite thing. And I wanted to be more in the technology side of things. So I love Target. Pretty soon after, I I wasn't there very long, and I found a company called in moment. Ah, which I I really loved. They do customer feedback surveys. Um, and I can add a few different roles there. I started out in their operations team building the platform. And from there I was approached by the development team and said, We need to build out ah quality Assurance Team. Um, A Q A team, and we'll need a manager. Do you want to come down and do that? And everyone thought I was crazy for leaving my current place because I was doing pretty well where I waas. And so I went down and became that. And that's how I got introduced. The product management. They kind of grew out of product team there. And, um, I said, Okay, that's kind of why I love the technology side. But I also liked the business side. And so that's how I became a product manager. And, um, from there I actually went Teoh Overstock dot com that as I played there, I'd also applied another place called Force Point um, which I really liked Ah, there Operation thing as well. But the job that I applied for didn't quite work out, and so I went over stock in about a month later, Um, I got asked and called up by someone that force point and said, we have a different job, the product management job, but it's more within your range. Your ah, um, what you're doing and where you want to go do you want to? Me and I said I just started this new job. Um, they said, Well, let's just meet and we can talk about it And so, um, ended up Ah, I wanted to go there, Took him a few months. And so I think one of the things I learned is just put your heart into wherever you are, though, um, it Overstock. I wasn't there very long, but I tried to make it town when I was there during 1/4 quarter, which, you know is it's hard with retail anywhere. Um, but we pushed and released some new features that helped us an increased revenue. Why were there, um, in the millions? And so it was It was great. Um, and then I went to Force boy and I loved it there as well. I'm doing cyber security, and it was it was great. One thing I also have learned I think they went along with product management as titles don't matter necessarily, um, as much, um, because the product manager of forced point force point my product made more money than all of in moment made, um, in a year. But I was a director of product at a moment, and I was just I was a product manager force point. Um, but my responsibilities were greater there at a development team of 50 people just for my product. And so it was just much bigger. And so I mean, even now at the church of a senior product manager. But, um, last week my, um, title actually changed to, ah, technical product Manager three just because they tried to standardize of pay grades and with the world and what the ah, the term should be. And so my job description didn't change at all, But my title changed a little. And so, um and so my pay grade changed for the better. And so it was just It's just interesting. I've learned not to worry as much about titles, um, as what you're doing

great. So I think product managers It's a little interesting because every company is different. What? You what you dio um you're kind of a mini CEO. You handle the product life cycle. So from birth to death of a product, Um, as well as the vision and strategy that you, ah, do with that product. Um, and what I like to think of it is it's where your user experience, your business side and your technical sides all intersect is where a product manager lives. Um, and so one of the big things is you have to understand what the business needs are for both the business and the customers and then communicate that to the development teams. Um, I think that's a lot of what I do and spend a lot of time doing. I mean, a lot of meetings. Um, you also have to understand in the market how the products use and where you need to take it using analytics. Um, and you need to use data to back up your decisions a lot of times because sometimes especially business owners, you know they use their guts to feel where they need to go with things And you mean you use data to back up? Ah, why you need to go a certain way or to show things then and endless sing to the development teams. Your ah, it's an interesting role, I think, because you have usually you know of any direct reports that you influence a lot of people, um, to make the decisions you needed to get things done. Um, I think as far as the time you spent, usually it's I I would say 40 to 50 hours a week, depending on the company. And, um, right now, I when we were working in the office, I can get on the train. So it's about an hour. Each directions about two hours on the train. And then once a week, I worked at a different office, which is about 15 to 20 minutes each way. So it's a lot less of, like commute, um, on those days. But right now I'm working from home. So, um, a lot less travel. But I think one other thing just to mention in here, too. It's just as a product manager, you do travel toe, meet with customers, or at least you should push to do that? Um, so I would say, Ah, before all this cove it hit. I was traveling about once a quarter. Um, about a week or so at a time. Eso, I would say, expect 10% travel time. Um Or so you know, even if its local businesses and things that you're following up with, just Teoh, expect that within their to some travel my travel internationally and stuff to you about once a year, Um, and then domestically, about three times a year, so

um So, like I said before, one of the biggest challenges I think is that you don't have a defined job. Well, you can you do. You say you manages the product life cycle, but you could be in different parts of that all the time. Um, so you could be discovering one day where you're kind of discovering what you need to build and doing things. The other part you may be planning. I'm working on a big project right now that I've been spending months planning and I'm trying to get user stories ready and requirements ready and working with the design team. Um, and then you execute, you know, you're actually in the weeds trying to make sure you get the product out and in your training and getting everything ready. And so I think that changes all the time, so that makes it a little hard and challenging. But I like it cause there's always something new to Dio. You may be on the phone one day with the customer, and the next day you're in meetings all day drained. I figure out the next big thing you're building. So, um, it's great. I think some of the other hard things is, there's always trade offs. Um, there's always good and better, and so there's so many good ideas out there, but yet to figure out you only have so much money and budget, and so you have to fight for what you need to have done. And, um, one of the examples I think I have is I had a project that didn't get funded one year. Um, there was a great project. They just said, Come back next year. We just don't have money for that yet. Um, and what I learned, though, is that's not always a bad thing, because during that time I was able to go to Europe for a different project and why I was there. I learned a lot of needs that if I would have built it the way that we thought we needed it, um, are we wanted to build it would not have worked right. So the next year he got funded because they came back with an international perspective, um, and said internationally, this is how we need to build this product as well as domestically. And it was great that that was a bigger win. Um, and that's what we're actually getting ready to build right now. Um, I think the other challenging thing is you have to balance, um, company goals with customer needs and the budget, all once and so when I was, um, working before it, another company, we had a great opportunity to increase revenue, but it didn't align with company goals. And so even though I brought it in, the executives just said, That's not where really, where we need to go. And I think sometimes you have to be OK with that and just accept that on Guy presented the data, and they just said, But this other opportunity will pray. Give us a bigger return on our investment. Um, so that that's another one, Um, that you just have to listen to the your business holders, but also represent the customer to them and to others. Um and then I think one of the other ones I think that's one of the hardest challenges is no one reports to you, so you have to influence a huge amount of people. Um, and you're the person that they come after when something goes wrong, right? If the product doesn't work right or you're not getting a bug out things that you know if the development teams not going fast enough, Um and I've had that before where the Goldman team comes back and says, this is not gonna work. Um And so you have to go back and explain that to the business solders and articulate why? Or come back to the business side and and the development teams and explain, um, you know that there's really the triangle of resource is cost in time, and you can control two of those usually. And so you have to add more time or or you have to add. Ah, more resource is if you want the that's the sides to change. And so I've had to do that where you go and fight for, ah, more time or more costs. And usually if you explain it and and explain what's going on, that it works out really well. Um, but those are some of the challenges you're balancing multiple people's needs all of once, right? And big budgets to do it. Um, I think one other thing I just thought of to you is sometimes it's hard to end a life cycle of a product. Um, and I've had to do that it, you know, especially if you're the one who created it. But it za lived. It's life. And, um, you're ready to build something to replace it. Or maybe the market doesn't need that anymore. Um, you have to not be physically invested in that product, so