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How did you get to where you are today? What is your story? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
I actually took my first accounting class in high school and just filled one of the requirements that I needed in high school. It sounded interesting to me. When I got into it and actually went through the class, I was pretty intrigued by it. I enjoyed it quite a bit more than I thought I would. I started from there talking to my dad, who was in the finance and others that he introduced me with that were in the accounting profession and kind of continued that interest through the end of my high school career. When I got into college and needed to decide on a major, that kind of prompted me to choose the accounts degree or accounting major. If I don't like it, I can always switch and it just kind of carried me through. I got into college, enjoying it there as well. There were some tough classes for sure, but I did enjoy it, and I started to realize, even then, as I started to meet more with some of the professionals that how stable of a profession the accounting profession is to have a family and provide some stability for that family down the road. I felt like this feels right. It does seem to be a good profession for me. I enjoy the work. I just continued, and then that kind of got me kind of where I am on this today. That was kind of my start. But getting a job in public accounting with one of the big four firms. Guess back when I was recruiting, it was the big five. Arthur Andersen still around, and I had offers from several of them, and I selected PwC based on the kind of interactions that I had with the staff there. The strong story that PwC shares with me and I've had a great career at PwC ever since. It's been a challenging career, has been a rewarding career. I've learned a lot, which is what keeps becoming there every day. 

What are the responsibilities and decisions that you handle at work? Discuss weekly hours you spend in the office, for work travel, and working from home.

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
Starting with what responsibilities or decisions do I handle it work. In the public accounting world and in the accounting firms, it's fairly similar across most of the firms. There's a very structured kind of management or promotion process. The responsibilities that you handle at work are dependent upon your level, right? The things that you do as a new associate versus a senior associate or a manager or even a partner are somewhat different. But we all work together, and it's a great combination of responsibilities. I'm a partner, at PwC and I'm a partner in our audit practice. The things that I deal with right now every day are I supervise on and oversee engagements. The companies that need financial statement audits as they need other attest type work. Then we will send in a team. They will do the work, and I will be a part of that team such that I'm gonna do the final sign off. As the team does the work, even stepping back as we sculpt the work and plan for the work, I'm involved to help make sure we're spending the right amount of time and effort around the maybe the higher risk areas in that work. On that, I review that work someone completes. It is usually one or two levels of review. I'm also reviewing the network, and then, in the end, I need to get comfortable as the partner to just sign off on the entire engagement and say, "Yeah, we're good. We've got everything we need to do. We've addressed all the risks" and then we issue an opinion on the financial statements, and that opinion is something that I sign and basically tell the market or tell whoever are the users of financial statements are that the financial statements are free of material misstatement, they're correct. They're applying generally accepted accounting principles the right way and that opinion hopefully carries some weight in the marketplace. That's kind of the day job, the normal nuts, and bolts of what a public accounting firm does and what a partner may do in an engagement like that. I also have responsibilities to manage people. I'm on the market team leader, which means I kind of lead our entire practice for our market. I also oversee a few partners. I oversee the kind of the entire office in our practice relative to the audits that we do. There's a number of people that we manage, and we're dealing with. HR matters and people questions around promotions and career development and things like that. We're also out of the marketplace getting our brand out, getting our name out. PwC rates as a strong brand in a number of sectors, and we're out promoting that and trying to win new clients. There's a relationship development element too. We're out of the marketplace. I'm going to lunch with CFO's or working with controllers or CEOs or board members just developing relationships to hope to maybe win new work. That's another element of my responsibilities as well. One of the questions you mentioned here was just around my schedule or weekly hours. We still have a fairly traditional busy season. When I look at my clients, I have a lot of December 31 year ends. Usually, the audits need to be done within 90 days, 60 or 90 days after that year-end. And January, February March gets pretty busy for me. We're working. My teams are probably working anywhere from 50 to 70 hours a week and right up against a deadline and I usually share some of those hours with them. My days may not be quite as long as a partner. You kind of have the ability to stay engaged with the team, but maybe not be in the field on a daily basis like they are but you're so supervising. My hours, maybe somewhere closer to the 50 or 60 range. But the work gets done, and then after that busy season, it goes down to anywhere from 40 to 50 hours a week. I would say on a pretty regular basis and as we have certain client deadlines or sort of internal lines and the weak or two or whatever. Before those deadlines could sometimes also get pretty busy. The hours would come up. The offset for that is when we're not busy, we have a great vacation and great policies for time off and family time, and whether it's maternity or paternity and the benefits, they're really strong, so that when we don't have to be busy, we can really enjoy and take some time off.

What tools (software services, websites, data sources, and programs) do you use at work? Do you prefer certain tools more than the others? Why?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
PwC has been on a journey for a number of years to digitize our audit process and our work and the same on the backside as well. We've introduced a number of tools over a number of years that we use very heavily in the work that we do and even in the last few years, it's just exploded. We've been on what we call our digital upscaling journey, where we're training all of our people, not just a select group of specialists, all of our people, on all of these tools, that are enhancing the way we work. Just from a basic perspective, we use a Google suite for our email and collaboration, with Google Docs and Google sheets and all of that is kind of Google based. That's kind of one element of our business which is internal. The audit software that we use is actually internally developed. It's called Aura, and it's online-based now. We're moving it to all just online in the cloud-based software, and it kind of takes us through an entire audit program on every engagement, from planning to execution to completion and working on addressing the right risks and sampling and all the things that you need is all kind of embedded in that tool. Those are the tools that new students are hired or people are hired by our firm, we spend a fair amount of time training them on that specific tool because it is proprietary for us. But a couple of the tools that we just in the last several years really ramped upon and we're training all of our people to do, really are things like robotics, process, automation or artificial intelligence, or workflow tools and storytelling tools. And we use tools like Alteryx or UIPath or Tableau, those are the tools that our people are really starting to utilize in a really significant way. Those were some things that we do. We're still very big in with Excel. That's a very big tool that we use in a lot of our world, but those were some fun new tools that we're getting into.

What things do you like about your job? Were there any pleasant surprises?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
I like a lot of things about my job. One of the things I like the most is just the people I work with. In a public accounting firm like PwC, you're surrounded by some of the best and brightest people out there, and it's incredible to work with such a bright and challenging and self motivated team. It's not just one or two individuals. It's like 60 individuals, it's 100 individuals, a lot of people. When you're surrounded by that many people who are really highly motivated and high performers, it's great for not just me but it's great for anyone, really. And I just enjoy the association I have with those people. They're great team players there. We work together well, and it's a great environment to be a part of it. That's one thing I like most. I have enjoyed working with students. It's fun to go back to campus and go talk to students and help them along their journey and making some decisions about their future careers. the student involvement is a lot of fun as well, and I love the relationship side of it. The client or industry relationships dealing with CFO's and CEOs and board members, were some pretty great relationships, and you get in the trenches with them on some things, and you're really able to help them solve some important problems. It's really enjoyable for sure. There were some difficult things there, too. It's challenging at times. Some of our clients want to do fairly complex things, and we have to roll up our sleeves and really dive in and figure it out. Sometimes they don't like the answer, but you can't come through those challenges. If you have the right relationship, you come through those challenges even stronger and and I have enjoyed that.

What are the job titles of people you routinely work with inside and outside of your organization? What approaches do you find to be effective in working with them?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
I mentioned a couple right outside. We work a lot with CEOs and CFOs or controllers. The board members, particularly audit committees for me, very senior people of the client. Those people I've to deal with a lot. Inside the firm, I deal with everybody from our new associates all the way up to other partners. That's a great thing about even in the office, like ours, where we're located. We have a fairly small team of maybe 60 70 80 people. But, total office, I think we're a couple of 100 now. You get to know everyone in an office that size or a team that size. So that's really helpful. The people that report directly to me are mostly the managers, senior managers, and directors. I really interact with senior associates and then experience new associates as well. I guess one of the things, from an approach perspective, that works for them is you kind of always have to understand your audience. If I'm dealing with the CFO, the things I'm talking about, that CFO, maybe the way I'm presenting those things may be very different than what I'm doing with a senior associate on my team. You have to adjust your communication style, kind of tailor that. Every time I go in front of a CEO or a board or even the CFO, I want to make sure I bring something relevant to that conversation and whether it's some perspective on what's going on in the marketplace or maybe something they're dealing with the transactional challenge they're dealing with. I just try to prepare myself a little bit for the audience that I'm speaking to.

What major challenges do you face in your job and how do you handle them? Can you discuss a few accomplishments?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
There are always challenges and those are a part of your growth process of any professional. But, I would say in the environment we're in right now and this is obviously April in 2020 and we're dealing right now with a market that's very volatile with the COVID-19 pandemic. It's hitting us right now, and it has definitely shaped the things that we're dealing with, things our clients are dealing with right now, we're all working from home for a period of time, working remotely. There are challenges there. Thankfully with PwC, we've been on a journey over the last number of years to move digital with everything that we do, so that when we had to now go home for almost the entire op, an entire firm, we didn't miss a beat and it was great. There are some challenges now, and in dealing with clients, we're dealing with them, not face to face. It's usually over a video call or over the phone, and there are some additional touchpoints that I've now had to introduce into my process. I keep up with them and keep connected with them and the same thing with my team. My people that I work with and making sure that we're visiting and connecting and the doing those things. That's a new challenge that we've faced. When I look in the marketplace right now, we've had clients and companies that are dealing with this COVID-19 in a unique way, where it is really impacting their business. We've had to introduce additional procedures and things that we do around going concerned whether or not the company's gonna continue. There's a going concern because of the shutdowns or the things that have affected them. This is broad-based across a number of clients, and those are hard conversations to sit down with the company and have and say, "Look, if you project your cash flows out for the next year, are you going to still be around or you gonna have enough money to pay your debts?" and when they start looking at it, it's almost a very difficult realization for them and most of the time they're already there. They've already aware of it. Working on it, but those difficult conversations we're trying to be helpful at the same time, we're trying to follow the rules and the standards that we have in order to get our work done. That can be challenging. Some of the other challenges I've looked back on our usually dealing with, doing our work and finding something that the client maybe didn't realize was going in their books and records or with their employees. When we're out there doing our work, we find something and we have to communicate that to them, and they're always a little bit. They take a lot of private work sometimes, And so when we come in and say you may have done this wrong or you know this was happening, there's a little bit of tension there that you just have to know how to manage. Those tend to be interesting conversations. But if you had the right relationship with that person outside, if you've established a relationship outside of that kind of conversation then usually those conversations are a lot better. We've dealt with things like turn over that are in our office or at our firm more broadly like maybe don't have enough resources and got a lot of work to do. So it puts the burden on some of our existing people to work a little longer, a bit more or we had times where we've had a lot of growth. There is a lot of or low turnover. We need to find ways to keep them busy. And it ebbs and flows. And just managing that from an operation perspective, sometimes can be challenging. I think in the public accounting world and for me personally, I think some of the things that I think of accomplishments are, I worked through a fairly difficult but exciting engagement a while back a few years ago where a young company that was a client, they were growing fast, and they wanted to become a public company. And so we did go through the IPO process with them, took them public, and now they are one of the most successful public companies in the market. And it's just fun to see how they grew and went through that we were there, to help them get there. That's why I look back on that. That's a really big accomplishment. I think you know some of the things that you do in probably accounting around just your promotion cycle, right? To be able to be promoted to a senior associate, and then a manager, senior manager, especially a Partner, I think that's something I always look back on having taken for granted. I think that's a privilege to be where I am, and it's taken some hard work. But it's something I really have enjoyed as an accomplishment. And maybe the third thing I would say is as I look at what we try to do, what I try to do personally, what we try to do personally as firm is, we're trying to get back to the community. There've been a number of opportunities I've had, I've been on the board of our food bank, the chairman of the board now, and some of the things that we do in the community and the giving back our time and even resource as much as we can have just been incredibly rewarding. And it's fun to work for a company like PwC that supports and encourages it right and kind of leads from the front there. In that regard, that has been really rewarding working with some of those tax organizations.

How do professionals in your field get new clients and negotiate payment terms? What approaches work and what don't?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
We get new clients in a few different ways. The most successful way, I would say is, is through relationships, right. The management team with partners, all the partners in our office, as well as some of the directors and managers and senior managers. We all share a responsibility to build our network and be out in the marketplace. Sharing industry insights and doing events, taking people to lunch and meeting with companies that look like they're strong and growing and may need some help. We're out trying to work that network a little bit and develop those relationships. And I didn't realize this as an accountant. But part of my job is sales, right? And so I have to be able to share and know how to talk to a potential client and a company about the services that we have and the things that we could do to help them, and then we usually after we develop those relationships, will sometimes be able to say, we want to do your work. They'll issue us a proposal or a request for a proposal that we'll work through putting together in about five pages, 20-page proposal, depending on the organization and this makes our qualifications and why they should choose us and then our fees. Then we provide that to them. Sometimes they'll invite two or three or four different companies or firms to propose on that work. We're competitive, trying to be competitive in our pricing and in the way we present ourselves. Then the company goes through a process to select their Auditor or their tax professional or the firm that's gonna do their consulting work. So that's kind of the process. Sometimes we do get a phone call out of the blue from a company maybe we haven't heard of that says, "Hey, we're looking for new tax professionals or we're looking for a new auditor. Can you come to meet with us and talk to us about what you guys do?" And so we'll go meet with them and understand. Then we'll submit a proposal and win that work. The other way, sometimes with the relationships we have. If we build them up over a number of years. Sometimes these things do take years. They look at us and say, "Look, we like the relationship we have with you. We just want to switch to you. We're just gonna give you the work" and it doesn't happen through a competitive process. And so there's a number of ways that work. But it can happen overnight, it can happen over a number of years. It's an exciting part of our business, but it's certainly how we win clients and how we find work.

What qualities does your team look for while hiring? What kind of questions does your team typically ask from candidates?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
With a professional services firm like PwC. We're in the people business, we're building leaders, right? Our secret sauce is not any kind of special widget. It's our people. We're looking to find people who have strong capabilities as leaders, have a good work ethic, know how to communicate well. They have good accounting-based knowledge and things that we couldn't take and teach them how to be a good tax professional or auditor. We're really looking for leadership qualities, working for good grades and a good education. Because that provides a good foundation for us to build on. We're looking for people that are well rounded able to show some of that diversity and things that they've done in their background that might just add to the color and flavor on the team. We're very focused at PwC on the diversity inclusion aspect of our firm, on our hiring as well. And diversity comes in a lot of different ways. It comes through some of the normal diverse, I think, categories that we talk about relative to race or other protected categories. We're always looking for those types of candidates. Diversity in the broader sense is also looking for diversity of thought, diversity of experience and a lot of ways because when you bring that type of group together and a team, it's just incredible strength that kind of diversity brings. I think that's something that we are definitely focused on, and when we interview, some of the questions that we're gonna ask you, we talk about them as being behavioral-based questions. But we really were just trying to get to know our students and the people that we're gonna hire through experiences they've already. We're gonna ask you to think about the experience you've had at school or work. If you have been working during school or life. You've experienced may be in your life around different topics like working, working in groups and working in teams or the meaning of questioning anything of times when you've received feedback on your performance. And how did you handle that feedback or maybe things you've done things that you do when in a challenging situation, right? Can you think of a situation where you encountered a challenge of how you got over that you know so well? The draw from your school experience, be able to draw from any work experience really is helpful in an interview when we're asking those types of questions.

What is a typical hiring process for a job like yours? What are the titles of people who interview? What questions usually get asked and how to handle them?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
Our hiring process is fairly structured. We do start recruiting and start talking to students early on in their college careers. Usually, in their sophomore year and depending on the student, maybe even earlier. But usually, in that junior year between your junior and senior year, we start talking to you about an internship or even being in the part of a summer leadership program that we do. And then you do that internship sometimes between your senior year and your master's program and then from that internship, you can also then get hired full time after your master's program is done. We start early and we usually do interviews for internships. Our first round of interviews will be in the spring, typically in March, February or early March. Then we also do a recruiting cycle in the fall around kind of the September-October time frame. Sometimes we're filing internship spots with those in the fall, sometimes we're also filling full-time spots that we may have opened in the fall as well. That's the kind of timeline in structure. The titles of people that usually do interact with campus or the students are anywhere from a partner, director, senior manager or manager. Those are the ones that typically come. We do have our associates and seniors usually that are on campus or who have just recently joined our firm we have them come back because they're also seeing some other perfect colleagues and friends.

What is a future career path for professionals like you? How long does it typically take to advance through various roles? How easy are such promotions to come by?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
In public accounting, I guess when you think about the promotion cycle, it's fairly structured. When you start as a new associate, you're looking about 2 to 3 years to get to senior associate, which would be your first promotion and then another two or three years to your manager promotion and then another 2-3 years to a senior manager and then another few years to a director. That's kind of the cycle is usually to get to a partner. I want to say it's probably anywhere from 12 to 18 years, so there's a pretty wide gap there when you get to a director. Some people can maybe get a partner in a few years, and some people may take longer. That's kind of the timeline that we typically see take it to a partner level in our firm. It's fairly structured, which is kind of nice because there's always something you're working for and it achieving and we do all of our professionals through that. It's not just some get promoted to senior and some get promoted to the manager. When you get there, if your performance is strong and you've kind of got that time in your career that you can be promoted, everyone could be promoted. If their performance reports that way may delay someone's performance for a year and give them more experience. But they're still working to get that, and they will get that eventually. So that's kinda how that works for kind of the promotions in our firm. 

What are different entry-level jobs and subsequent job pathways that can lead students to a position such as yours?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
We have a pretty standard entry-level job. Whether you're in tax, your interest is in tax or audit, those are fairly standard right out of campus we'll hire for new associates. We're a big firm. We have a lot going on. It's not just tax and audits. We have HR professionals, IT professionals. We have lots of infrastructures that we have to support at a firm our size. There are lots of other opportunities. The hiring process for those is usually not through the business school or the accounting department, using through whatever the professional needs to have in order to get those other positions. If you don't come through campus or through a school, then you go and work at a company for a few years and then want to get into public accounting firms like PwC. We do hire experienced candidates. Maybe after a year or two of being out of the field, we have a need. It will open a position for an experienced associate or maybe even a senior associate, and we'll look to see who's been out there in the industry may be working for a couple of years as a clerk, AP clerk or an assistant controller or controller, and maybe they want to get in the public accounting. Or maybe they left public accounting and want to come back and we'll hire them into those positions as well. Usually, we've hired people into senior roles, experienced associate roles and even manager roles from the industry. Sometimes it's professionals that have left public accounting. Maybe they were at PwC or another firm, and after two or three years they left. They got out there. This happens quite a bit. I got out there for two or three years and I realized I kind of miss public accounting or I wanted I think the stability there is really helpful. They call us and they say can we come back or we post a job and we get applicants that kind of apply for that experienced, more experienced role. There are a variety of ways to get there. The bulk of our hiring does come through campus.

How did the school prepare you for your career? Think about faculty, resources, alumni, exposure & networking. What were the best parts?

Based on experience at: MBA, Utah State University - Jon M. Huntsman School of Business
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
The school was great. We look across the universities that we recruit at, and we know the level of trust with those universities. We know their programs well, we know the book knowledge, the foundational accounting knowledge that they get there is really good and it does provide a good platform, and we trust that platform to be solid. Then we take our professions from there and we build them into being good tax professionals or professionals are otherwise. There's a level of trust starting there. If you get good grades and do your best in school, we kind of know that exists and we'll take and build from there. From my experience when I went through school once I knew that, I felt like, "Okay, I've got to get good grades and I got to do my best." And then I've also got to find out other ways to get a job, right? If my grades were good and my school was reputable and I'm in a good spot, at least from a starting point perspective, how am I gonna differentiate myself from my peers, other students in order to get a job? I talked to professors they were giving me advice on who to talk to. One of them even helped me connect with one of the firms. Then I used my network. My dad was familiar with a couple of people in the profession, and he helped me meet a few people. I asked them questions. I was asking these types of questions, what are you looking for in your hiring process? When it came time for me to actually start interviewing, I was all the more prepared for what the drill was. Some of those extracurricular things that I did during school. A lot of people debate, some people are involved in student government or other activities and extra things on campus. Those all become very good connecting points to professionals, and they also become very good from a leadership development perspective to say you had responsibilities and you're taking the lead on certain things. Where have you been involved? Think that says a lot. All those things I think helped prepare me for when I then actually sat down in an interview and started talking to someone about what I wanted to do. And why should they hire me? It all kind of came together.

How did the school prepare you for your career? Think about faculty, resources, alumni, exposure & networking. What were the best parts?

Based on experience at: BA, Accounting, Utah State University - Jon M. Huntsman School of Business
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
The school prepared me in a lot of great ways. I had a really solid accounting and business program where I went to school and the group projects as much as I probably didn't like them at the time. Those types of things actually really prepared me well for what real life or real professional experience is like in a firm like PwC. Those types of things were really relevant. I think the other experiences I had in those classes where they were actually getting us out into the marketplace and we were working with actual companies doing case studies or research or other things relative to understanding how things work in the real world. I think they were some of the most important things that I remember from my experience up there. The faculty and the career recruiting team and the people there, they really helped us know what the firms were looking for. Be relevant when we were talking to the firms and they just see the events that we did that on campus. When we brought the firms to kind of come to campus and meet us as students. I took every opportunity I could to meet with professionals and try to make an impression every time I talk to them so that when we actually did sit down in an interview, in an actual job interview, they kind of knew I was ready. Attending or and even now where we're doing a lot more virtually there are still ways you can reach out to the email or video, chat or other things and maybe give you an opportunity to connect with professionals. Those are all things that really were helpful to me during that process.

Would you like to share something that is not on your resume? This may include your passions, facing setbacks or adversities, a unique experience, or an unexpected help.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
Well, I love the outdoors. This is in my resume or not, but I love the outdoors. We love it with our family. We, enjoy getting out and traveling. I have a lot of kids, four kids, and all of them of play baseball or softball. We lived back east for a while. I am right now based in Salt Lake City. But after being in Salt Lake City for a while, I went back east to New Jersey, to our national office for a few years, and then I moved permanently to our New York City office for a while, and that's where I was made partner. And then after that, they asked if I would come back to Utah and helped lead our practice here. And so that's what I've done. But, in that transition of being in Utah on being back East, and my kids were young at the time, we ended up getting them in a lot of on a baseball and softball, especially on the East Coast, where it's really big and they've all played and they love it. We spend a fair amount of time at a ballpark. I've got a daughter that's on the high school team softball team and we enjoy it. That's a lot of fun for us. This time of year and kind of cooped up during this unique time. Where it is is difficult, but we hope to get back out there soon. I love to fish. I enjoy getting out on the river. And even my youngest son fishes well, we enjoy that together. So those were just some fun things, I guess that I enjoy it. Let's see setbacks or unexpected help? No real setbacks that I can think for me. I think you know we all have challenges in our career, But, it's amazing when you work for a company like PwC, you never have to go it alone. Even though I felt like I've come up against a wall and I'm encountering a setback, there's another partner there, and there's another professional there who's right by my side, helping me get through then and so the ability to kind of work together and never go it alone is fantastic. So that's something I enjoy

Do you have any parting advice for students hoping to get to a position such as yours? What 3 dos and 3 don'ts would you suggest?

Based on experience at: Partner, PwC
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Thu Apr 09 2020
We talked about a lot of good things. Let me think about how to be successful in public accounting. I think you gotta be able to be a leader at every level, whether you're an intern or a new associate or even a partner, you can still be a leader and exhibit leadership qualities. We talked about the importance of communication, both written and verbal. We talked about your work ethic and be able to work hard to know when to work hard. I think you've got also be able to develop your network and relationships. The ability to build that network and to know how to manage relationships is really, really important. I think those are all good things. I think that the don'ts you can translate into dos, but the don'ts would be careful of having a negative attitude. I think that that is not a leader. A leader knows how to be positive even when times get tough. Having a positive attitude's important, I think there's an element of wanting to be rewarded immediately for everything you do. I'd be careful about that, right? Sometimes rewards bonuses, whatever you want. Promotions come through a lot of effort and hard work, and they don't happen overnight. And so be careful about expecting things sooner than they maybe they will come on and work hard to achieve the things that you want in life, they do take effort. Don't forget to have fun. Your career needs to be enjoyable. Look around you and smile and just enjoy what you're doing. Enjoy the people you're doing it with because you can easily put your head down and bury your head and work hard and get a lot of things done and forget to look up and enjoy it. And so don't forget to enjoy it.