um because they're all agree questions. So I think I probably took it pretty nonconventional pathway because I'm in sort of entrepreneurship space where I think often times the pathways a little bit less conventional. So I didn't, you know, apply for a particular job or send my resume to anyone. My stories bit unique in the sense that I was a college student. Um, you know, just, ah, a couple of years ago, and I was someone who had been very involved in actual local and state government advocacy work. So I was working to pass legislation on environmental reforms and gun violence prevention and other sort of initiatives to support economic opportunity for people. And so I have been organizing college students on campus to take part in these initiatives, and we would go to the statehouse and actually Bobby for legislation every semester. And so that was sort of my big activity on campus. And I think my girlfriends were all very passionate about giving back to community, giving back to especially the populations that are most under served in our society. So I have this group of friends they're committed to public service on then senior fall came. And, um, I just saw how so many of my friends who had been very passionate about served service, you know, they end up getting offers from groups like McKinsey and Bain and Goldman and Google and, you know, every consulting and tech and science company in world. And so many of them took those offers and ended up moving to the biggest cities in country. Working for biggest comes in the world, um, and sort of like behind their own passions and also the communities that, um, you know, would have been most, uh, you would most benefited from from their service. So I saw this play out, and it was pretty disappointing to me. And it was also tough, my friend. So you were actually, you know, oftentimes not really excited about these these jobs, but thought it was the best possible. So I saw this all play out and I wrote actually on my suit newspaper and just said, Look, this is Ah, this is a problem. We have so many problems facing our country, whether it's inequality or poverty or food insecurity or, you know, problem with criminal justice system, climate change. And yet, when you actually look at all these problems, they're all problems that can be solved by people and great leaders. Yet the pathways for those those are non existent. And so many people who could be amazing to start tackling something's issues in the communities most affected are actually not going to those jobs. They're actually going there, taking completely from pathways into roles that are less impactful for for those communities that could most benefit. Um, And so I basically wrote about this sort of structural brain drain issue, both on sort of geographic in like an industry wide level where basically the best, most passionate people often don't actually work in the roles that could most benefit society inhumanity. And I wrote this article, didn't think anyone was going to read it, But then it got shared on Facebook with a student who was actually ah, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. He was also in my graduate years. He read it, and he had recently had this idea for this organization for America, which, you know, was basically designed to try to solve. This problem was was very much thinking about, you know, this meta issue of of this stretch problem where you know the best possible people, the salt, something that problems are actually just not working those those areas. So he reached out to me and gave me a call and said, Hey, I have this idea. A one pager. Um, I, you know, didn't know what I was going to get it. And I thought this was sort of be able to work on this issue that I had identified independently. And, um, you know, he basically said, uh, you know what? I, uh you know, I'll make sure that you get paid this summer so you can come work with me in Chapel Hill in North Carolina. And But I'll just pay with my personal savings that after you will find a way, um, I was able tell my mom that and said, You know what? I have something for the summer. I'm gonna go do it, and I did. And so that's how I got started. Um, and, um, I think how I got to where I am today, just been process of of, uh, you know, um, ability and learning so much every single day about what it takes to build organization and Teoh build build something that you know is both financially viable and also can benefit society. It's, I think that's kind of maybe getting to your first question, I think in terms of, um, the incident and experiences that have shaped my career path. Um, you know, I've been in this role has been my only job I've ever had. I came right out of college when I graduated in May of 2018. Had been with it for the past two years. Um, but I think the experiences that really shaped my career half as someone who, um, you know, I hadn't really had any experience, you know, in the professional world. Up to swing. I had a liberal arts education, Didn't have a lot of had a few internships. Not a lot of personal theories coming in. I think the, um, most, um I think I think there were there many events that sort of shaped, uh uh, you know, sort of how am today? And I think I think they all stem from the fact that you just have to kind of, uh, just jump off the deep end sometimes. And I think every time that we've kind of gone in a little bit. Um, I think maybe something I consider over our heads. I think that's been the opportunities where I've learned the most and where I've become the best possible version of myself in this role. So, for example, when we just launched, you have developed a partnership with um, the university, North Carolina's government, and they were going to help us launch State Program Fellowship program, where folks from North Carolina would actually serve North Carolina governments all across the state, especially in rural communities. So we had helped sort of design this program. They were going toe, um, you know, operated. And then he said, You know what? We're also gonna run our own program. As you know, these co founders separately, and it's going to the put people in their home towns all across the country. Um, and we're going to find a way to finance it. Fundraise for it designed the entire training, and that's sort of what we did. So we know created website and then started reaching out to literally thousands of students like individual messages to students all across the country. We messaged thousands of professors administrators and everyone getting the word out about program. And then we said, I think, probably 500 or 600 phone calls that first fall. And, you know, we were on the phone basically saying this is the program we're going to create. This is what you'll be signing up for its a two year paid fellowship. You're gonna have a month of graduate level training, you're gonna have mentorship. You're gonna have these graduate scholarships and we're saying all this, you know, without having finalized all of these things. Yet we have, you know, we're not lying to people. We're not saying, you know, these things exist were saying, This is what we're going to create But at the same time, it's a lot of pressure, and it's like, You know, sometimes you just have toe will something into existence when you're not sure. Everything that was, um you know, uh, thrilling, exhilarating, also terrifying time. And I think that was kind of, um you know, the the process. And I think that's how we've we've kind of lead in a lot of ways is we sort of say this is what should exist. Let's go created and um, we will continue fighting for this and pitching for it until until we get to that point. And I think, um, you know, I think that was a big learning experience. For sure is just how do you, um how do you just be brave enough to teach you go after what you want and, you know, way had plenty of people with all this. Like, none of what we were doing was possible. We were too young to an experience. Teoh. You know the finances when it work, no young people would want to work in local government in small town. Um, and you know, sometimes you just have to believe that what you're saying can be possible. And maybe if it's not possible now, you have to create conditions to make it possible. Um, so that was a big one. Um, I mean, I could go on non, but there's been so many experiences. I think you know, I you know, I'm the CEO of the organization. So my role for this fellowship program is, you know, contracting and you know, lots of things, but, you know, doing the finance and accounting in the contracting legal on the char. And so none of these things I had any experience with. And I mean, it's It's pretty, um, remarkable how much I've learned in the last two years. And I think a huge part of that has just come from from humility and mentorship. So this sort of organisations great. But, you know, basically I've had to rely on, um, advisers, consultants, anyone who I know there was a lot more than me to learn about how to do things like contract negotiations Or how to, um, you know, Joubert's first fellowships scholarships to, you know, dozens of people or how toe run in HR management system or how to pass an audit or apply for federal grants. All these things you require a decent amount of sophistication to do correctly and in compliance, and to build the right sort of systems that I could have done on my own. So much of it is requiring that humility to to rely on other people's expertise and learn how to best work with them. I think that's such a huge, huge component. But yeah, I don't know what I'm going to go on, but I guess the last question was about what inspired you to work on this nonprofit idea. Um, and I think for me, the, um yeah, I think I think really. It's kind of what I talked about earlier, which was just, um you know, very much. I see so many problems in society, right? And there's so many challenges. What a scene, whether it's, um, issues of the criminal justice system and police brutality or quality or just the, uh, lack of unity, polarization and division in all the sorts of, um, you know, uh, the problems of sort of recognition of people that are different in this country is just massive and getting worse, in my opinion. And but again, I think when I just think about it, I'm like, you know, really what can solve this problem is getting the right leaders in these positions of power to change things. It's not about specific policy solutions that can only go so far. It's actually about changing the personnel and not only personnel, but cultivating their minds. To be thinking in a much more compassionate community. Oriented likes less egotistic, you know, braver, more innovative way. And so I think that's kind of the work that we do. And that's what inspires me to do my job. Sure. Yeah. So, yeah, again. I was just graduated college about, you know, three or four weeks again, Like before. I I jumped in and, um, you know, move to a place I had never lived or knew anyone. And, um, I think the

I dream of the point, and I think there's definitely the can. An aura of mystique were like, Uh uh, there's sort of the fantasy people have about what working a startup is where it's, you know, it's great. Everyone looks together. Everyone you know is constantly, uh, you know, having a great time like goofing off, like, you know, going out to bars together, whatever, whatever it might be. But I mean, sure, there's definitely a lot of those elements, and I definitely think in the sort of intensity of a start of environment. You also built some of the closest friendships you will probably never be because you're just also in it together. And so that's amazing. But also so much of the work is so much slower than you might exactly take forever Toe happen. Things change on be frustrating, and when you start dealing with other people, when you start managing people, when you start, people are relying on you. There's a lot of like a weight of responsibility when you know when you let someone down. Um, it's a big deal. It really can affect people's lives. So there's a lot of weakness and sort of anxiety. I guess I could come with the the role on DSO those first few weeks, sort of eye opening of China out like what my even doing what? My job. There's no sure you just figure out what you need to do is no one's telling you what to dio and started world. Usually especially the very beginning. So, um, there was a lot of that of like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I have no skills. I've no idea. Like how toe even be helpful. Um, I think as things changed over the following months, it became more and more clear what I could be doing to most help the organization or how to best work with other people on the team. Andi, I think, sort of trajectory. The polarization is like starting out in this sort of infancy stage where there's no structure, there's no rolls, everyone's doing everything. There's not. It's really just a dream, and you're just pitching in the advocating for yourself to people who don't necessarily believe you. So it's just a lot of, you know, having the like puts, but to go out there and just advocate and when you move on. It's a lot more about building systems, building the right management structures, figuring out what roles actually are and also becoming very careful about how you spend time like thinking. No, I actually right person to be spending my time like going through this Reggie, Or is there an intern or is there someone else on the team is better quit or has more time on their hands to do these things? So I think it comes more from like a sort of sprints, like 100 meter dash to kind of Americans thinking a lot more about like the structures you want to build like the systems. But I think the thing that has a change is definitely like the sense when you're in a small startup and when you're also founder and servicing. Give that you know you have a lot of power Teoh big decisions, And I think that makes sort of the decision making process itself really a sandal get right. So I think just the practice of figuring out how to have conversations figure out what the right decision is at any point is one most important things that are senior team ducks and detective team does is just figure out, like, how can you best make decisions in the situation? And then every decision we make has a lot of week behind. It can really affect people's life. So just understand that responsibility is both terrifying, but also, um, exhilarating. Because you know what we do often matters. It's it's not about internal memos. It's about, You know, this policy we're going to is going to tangibly change our entire program, which will affects people. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, it's a great question. And, um, I think that was one of the hardest things I actually wasn't, you know, the one who recruited the rest of team. I got recruited by the CEO, Joe. Um, but knowing about his experience, you know, when you're just starting out

you are. You already have some funding. You can just hire people who have a lot of experience, and that's great. But, you know, I think when you're first starting out, you're just trying to make sort of care judgements on whether this person is really going to be bought in there. We're really gonna be hard working. Figure what they have to dio, um, and just share state vision to sharing the same vision is so important. And so yeah, I think Billy Mitchell team, you know, we're going off of, ah, basically prior relationships or just kind of what we knew about about people from mutual friends. And, you know, we just found people who were most excited about. It wasn't as much about we're hiring for a particular role for anything you're given employees until, you know, the second year of existence. It was just people who are ready to just volunteer their time to do this. Um, so, yeah, I think the challenges were, um, you know, finding, um you know, I think I think probably I'm guessing while the founding teams have the same issue where, you know, just chances are that some of them are gonna be great that on either side where you know it's not going to work out for the organization, it might not work out for the individual just because what you're doing is so novel and so so different from anything someone experience for. So it's really hard to know if it's gonna work on both sides. So we definitely have some issues about that beginning where, you know, we just needed to, you know, find people who were going Teoh go with organization and we're also just excited about our work and share that vision. So, um, I think overcoming it was just starting to build up the confidence to have hard conversations and just basically talk to people way. We're all close friends and roommates. At times, you know, people say, look like for where we're trying to bring this. Now that we have a clear vision of where this could go, this'd isn't working or the rolling to change or transition some way. Those were really hard conversations have, especially early on, especially when people feel like they have just as much stake as you do as another co founder. But there could be necessary and um, you know, the earlier is to have them? Probably the better. I think we probably sometimes waited too long and have the search conversations and yeah, I think the same thing, you know, continue consuming toe have often on issues where, you know, hiring people was something that we had no experience with, really. And we certainly didn't always make the best possible choice. And it also wasn't a great situation for people. Tell me, Not only is because I think when we, um you know, we're hiring in the early years. You're in the first couple of years, like there was a lot of, um Ah, there was just a lot of, you know, hiring based on excitement and values alignment, but less thought about, you know, what's the rule that they're going to be playing? Are we actually setting them up for success? Are we setting them up for the right role that they can fit into? So I think that was definitely part. I think we've made some really amazing hires and got some really awesome people that are have been in it from beginning and are gonna continue to be awesome. But I think probably just with any sort of hiring a management experience. Like there's always gonna be mistakes that are made on both sides. And you have to, like, learn how Teoh have the right process to minimize those. And it also have the right sort of monitoring systems. When things aren't going well, you just have to be able to realize things aren't going well early. And I think that's one of our big slogans is you have to, like, kind of he is clear eyed as possible about these things and think always about what's the best for the organization, for the vision on how people get into that vision as opposed to first thinking about. I really like this person have a great personality. So, um, you know, I think that's a big learning for us, and I think we're still learning so much. And we still have so much learning. I think management has been the hardest thing that we've had to do as part Yeah, absolutely. So, um, basically are not profit is, uh you know, um, basically, we look to help people there usually. Uh um, you know, Young ages 21 to 30. Often there. Coming right out of college, but sometimes a little bit older. Um, we're looking for people who, you know are extremely passionate and committed to public service, but they don't necessarily know how to channel the energy. They don't necessarily know how to get involved. They don't necessarily have the right half ways to serve.