South Dakota State University Director, University Marketing and Communications
University of Minnesota Master's of Education, Kinesiology
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How did you get to where you are today? What is your story? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
really good question. And I certainly had a very interesting path to where I am today. I, um, did my undergraduate degree in journalism at the University of Montana and kind of the early to mid nineties. And at the time there wasn't a public relations track I knew all along I didn't really wanna work in, uh, for a newspaper or broadcast or anything like that. It wasn't completely sure how I was gonna get to where I wanted to go. But I ended up meetings of people along the way, and I actually started out and, um, public relations in intercollegiate athletics. So I didn't communications for the University of Minnesota for a number of years and different positions and kind of bounced around, um, in the athletic world. And then I had the opportunity to get out of athletics, and I was in the renewable fuels industry, particularly ethanol. And that's what brought me from University of Minnesota, Thio, South Dakota, and work for privately traded company in that space for a while, um, less than a year and realized opportunities that existed with a publicly traded company in the ethanol industry. So, um, really had a interesting time with them doing corporate communications. And if you kind of ask about you know what incidences and experienced shaped our career path, I think my strength has always kind of been in the strategic communications realm. The marketing piece has always sort of come with that. I was involved in a lot of issues. Management, crisis management, Uh, in particularly when I was in the ethanol industry, we did one of the largest mergers or the largest merger at the time in the ethanol industry. But then a year later, our company went through bankruptcy. So when from this extreme high to this extreme low and saw how that impacts ah, company and then after the bankruptcy, Um, that's how I ended up at South Dakota State University in my current role of marketing and communications because they moved corporate functions to Texas. Um, really didn't even explore that as an opportunity and not sure if there was an opportunity there. So that's right. I came to STS you

What responsibilities and decisions does one handle in a job like yours? What are the top three priorities? What are weekly work hours like?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
Yeah, So I have an office of about. I think there's 16 full time people in here. So the responsibilities and decisions that I make really are impactful of of the marketing communications effort of the university. So were the Central Office at South Dakota State University. And so we have different areas were responsible for the majority of our external website. Social media news releases unpaid media opportunities. We help with our alumni magazine. Another publication pieces for different colleges. Um, we do all of our digital communications. Um, photography. Graphic design is another one. And then also our trademark and licensing program, all the approvals and the brand of management that comes out of the office. So there is a lot of decisions that go into what we do on a on a daily basis, I think are are three top priorities. One is thio. Maintain institutional brand and brand awareness. So we are the protectors of our brand. Uh, certainly, um, recruitment of students or marketing to prospective students and also, retention of our, um, current student base is very important, and we work very closely with our admissions office. They obviously do the recruitment piece of it, We do the marketing piece of it, and then I would think the other thing. The other Cree area then is, you know, public positioning of the university. How are we looked at from the outside, and particularly a number of key stakeholders? Whether that state legislators are regions, alumni, our foundation board. I think we have a very important part in that as well. You know, weekly. You know, what are the hours like? You know, the one thing about communications and marketing is you're kind of on call 24 7. if God forbid, a building blew up or something like that, a good portion of my team would be responding to that. If we have something that occurs on the weekend and we need to put on social media, we do that as well, too. But in this world, you're able to manage your hours and, um, balance your life out, you know, certainly way talk a lot about We're not here to count our hours as long as we get our work done. So I've got very responsible people in this office that just do what they need to do but are available when we need them. Yeah, well, so if you get into what we call that recruitment funnel, you know, there's different activities that we I need you to do. So obviously, what does apply to the university, uh, to you would have maybe a financial aid require our financial aid form to fill out or scholarship forms housing visits, all those types of things. So that direct one on one contact that we have from the university say, if you are are prospective student would come through our admissions office and how things work within that funnel. What we do with it is provide that umbrella about university. It's brand. It's experiences what it's like to be, ah, student here and then try to help supplement. You know what admissions is doing by providing more of that? That visual awareness, uh, to what life in South Dakota State University is like

What are major challenges and pain points in a job like yours? What approaches are effective in overcoming them? Discussing examples will help students learn better.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
eso you know, some of the major challenges? Um, I think and I mean, we're all kind of in that same boat in higher education. And that way we depend on decisions that 18 1920 year old young adults are are making, and you want them to come to your institution. So enrollment is always a challenge. Um, you know, pain points. And this is really where you kind of get into the fundamentals of marketing and communications eyes, people understanding that in particularly communications exists at all levels of an organization. And there's ah, fundamental responsibility of all those levels to have the ability to communicate a lot of times as communicators. It's sort of left upon us to say, Oh, we need to communicate this. Now go get the communications team and the team may not always know what exactly we're trying to accomplish, So communications needs toe be in concert with whatever initiative, project. Whatever company you're working for, you need to have a communicator at a table. And because of the complexity of a university, that sometimes is a little bit more difficult because you're dealing with multiple colleges. They're dealing with multiple audiences. You got administration on one side, you've got a foundation on the other side of campus, so it's kind of it's difficult to rain all that in it at one time. How are approaches are effective and overcoming them. You know, you spend a lot of time trying to knock down some of those silos that may exist so that you could have a collaborative nation nature on your campus and we're doing a couple of different things. You know, a lot of campuses have marketing communications committees or things like that. We really took a hard look at marketing communications on our campus and beginning to sort of launch. A more systematic approach to being able to address some of the gaps that we've seen doesn't necessarily mean we're gonna fund a lot of new things. But how can we close up some of the gaps that may exist on our campus in the areas of marketing, communications and putting the right people together? I do think in saying that the pandemic has has changed some things for us because it has sort of knocked down maybe some of those silos that exist because for the past 78 months, it's really been a all hands on deck. We need to support everybody and each other during this. So I think that's changed the culture already. Now we just have toe be able to capitalize on this. Um, examples were Well, help students learn better. Um, if you're interested in this profession or if this is something you're looking to do, every university has, ah, marketing and communications office, if not several of them. You learn by doing, and we hire a lot of students in our office and this may be a little bit different direction that you're hoping I could go with this answer. But we hire a lot of different students in our office, and we really try to give us much hand on experience as we can. Doesn't mean as they come in as a freshman, they're gonna have free reigns to do everything they may want to do. But if they come in in that first year and keep working by the time they leave here, they've got a lot of responsibility in our office and a really good portfolio resume to take with him. Um, the other thing is, there's, you know, sometimes you know in particular pandemic like this. There's no playbook for this, and so you spend a lot of time and especially in a crisis situation. You hate to say that, but in a crisis situation, you spend a lot of time watching how others respond to certain things, or maybe some examples of things that have been done well and learn from those as well, too. So I probably stop there, and I'm sure there's plenty of more, but that's probably the big ones for May.

What are the job titles of people who someone in your role routinely works with, within and outside of the organization? What approaches are effective in working with them?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
So, um, you know, So in my world, I probably worked at in the higher ed space. I probably worked with a lot of vice presidents for marketing communications. We don't normally have a lot of vice president roles here in South Dakota for that, but, you know, the other thing is whether it's corporate communications appears across three areas. So if we have business relationships, we, uh, do work with a lot of their corporate communications individuals. Um, you know, in terms of media, we work with a ton of media outside of our organization as well. The best approach is infected. Working with him is obviously the relationship building and the transparency, um, of what it is you're doing and what you're trying to accomplish. Certainly your transparency might be a little bit different with the media. Then it would be with a business partner. But it's really that ability to work together and develop, um, different trust levels and understanding of each other so that you're kind of UDA's. I go to person in any relationship, and if you get there, it really makes your work in the collaborations much, much better.

How would you describe your management style? How has it evolved over the years? Can you tell about experiences or books that influenced your management style?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
um, eso. I'll kind of answer the other one. There's, um, the books P sir, I would talk about There's a lot of books on corporate communications and integrated marketing and communications, and there were certainly one that was written a long time ago before the digital age that just talked about the value of communications in in organization. Um, that was really, really, I think, a helpful book. But my experience, um as well, in terms of my management style, I don't know if it can influence it recently or maybe be enforced it, and I'll get to what that style is. But I was able Thio attended Leadership Institute at Disney. Um ah, Few years ago, there was a wonderful, wonderful experience because it just gave me a unique opportunity to interact with not only leaders of a major organization, but there was probably 25 of us in the room that all had unique stories and were in similar, um, type roles. You know, my my leadership style is, um, I would like to be hands off with my employees and let them have the initiative to do what they need to do within the framework or the structure of our university. So I'm very much somebody that likes to operate. No, that's not always against a strategic plan, but obviously work against or with a set of goals or a strategic direction that helps define what we wanna do. I don't like to micromanage, but I'd like to be informed. My position does report to the president of the university. And certainly presidents like to be informed of what's going on with your university as well. So I always tell them if I need to know something, let me know if you run into any roadblocks then, um, let me know when we can discuss how we're gonna get through that. Um, how has it evolved over the years? You know, I've been really fortunate to have some great mentors in my life and have taught me a lot of things both positive and negative. And I just think I go by that belief that you hire good people to do good things, and you're gonna get mawr satisfaction from them and their job if you allow them to do their job. Because if you spend too much time micromanage them, it's not gonna help you or the organization, and it's only gonna, um, cause more roadblocks. I just hired a brand new marketing and social media coordinator, and so a lot of things that I was involved in for the six months it took eight months it took to get this person here. I can step away from now on, just let him do his job and he's sort of let me know where I need to be in Lupin, where I can help him and then vice versa where I can, where I can help him become better at what he's doing.

How do you manage conflicts within and across teams? How do you promote trust, openness and a healthy work culture? Sharing stories will greatly help.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
There's always two sides to every story, and when it comes to managing conflicts, it's really about being informed. It's it's also about just understanding that sometimes there might be some miscommunications or some things that just didn't get translated correctly when it when it comes. Thio not only just conflicts but the promoting trust. You know, the one thing I always tell people is that we may not necessarily always agree in a room, but when we leave that room, we're gonna be on the same page and trust, then comes from the fact that when we leave that room, whether you disagreed with it or not at the time by being on the same page means I have your back. You have my back and we're moving forward. Um, I think continually just being honest. Um, if you have a problem, deal with it, Don't let it linger. The longer it lingers, the worst it's gonna get. And just understand that you're always there to try toe supporting help that sometimes support and help might not be with somebody really wants to hear. But if you're again open and honest with them, you can generally work through those things. Um, you know, boy sharing stories, I could probably share tons of them. I mean, they're I think every day you probably goes through something like that where you have to, you know, make sure that you don't violate somebody's trust in terms of what's going on. And sometimes, um, you know, just helping an employee, whether it's not necessarily a promotion, But, um, in our world, maybe it's reclassifying their job. We're doing their job description to better fit their needs. I mean, those are small things that get done that can really, uh, Geena trust him on employees that you need, so I probably leave it there. Um, you know, the stories will probably go on and on and on.

How can one get better recognition of work from one's boss and higher management? What mistakes should one avoid? Stories or examples will be quite helpful.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
you know, it's That's a really good question in terms of better recognition of work from one's Boston Higher management. Um, you know, I would say in our world, um, you know, the the marketing communication world. You do have to sometimes check your ego at the door because you're not always going to be the one that is going to get recognized for work that's being done. And I don't say that in a negative way, But you're generally representing somebody else or doing something else for somebody so back to my corporate communications days. Um, you know, I would spend an awful lot of time with our CEO of the company getting prepared for investors calls. But I'm like one off five people that might be in the room helping him get ready for the investor call. But it's not my name on that call. And so as much work and effort and time is, I put into it. Our CEO needs to come out of that call looking really, really well, because that's his reputation, and that's the company's reputation, not mine. So I'm not really know he would thank me. He would know the work that I would put into it So with the other four people in that room. But in terms of the entire company or our stakeholder, our shower holders, things like that, you're not gonna get that that kind of recognition. And nor is that what you're in the business for. Two dio Um I write a lot of materials currently for our our president of the university. He knows that he thanks me, but if he gets kind responses to what is written, it's because people think he's written the communications and that's great. That's exactly what we need to have happened. So hey understands the work, but you're not gonna get the recognition beyond that as well, you know, in terms of mistakes that should be avoided. And I think a couple of things. If you're reporting Thio, the higher you report Thio, Um, I shouldn't really say that, I guess in any reporting circumstance, never assume somebody knows what you think they know on. So there's a real balance there in terms of keeping people informed about things that you're doing and the impact they're having on three organization, because sometimes you assume because they're the boss or because their upper management. They should understand what's going on with the company, and you'd be surprised. Not necessarily, always true. So you do wanna balance that with not giving them too much information, but learning how to give him the right kind of information. And if you could do that, you sort of avoid some of the miscommunications that may exist.

What indicators are used to track performance in a job like yours? Think of the indicators such as key performance indicators (KPIs), objectives & key results (OKRs), or so on.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
we use a ton? Um, you know. So, for example, in our marketing, most of its obviously done digital This this, uh, in this day and age. So we're able to track, um, how much engagement a specific ad gets, who engages with it. How long have they spent on our website? How? What information are they interested in? Uh, you know, we worked very closely with the marketing firm that helps us toe gauge all that interaction. And so from from that standpoint, we know what people are are interested in. Um, the other thing that I mean, the other thing that we do in terms of our social media, obviously same thing we know who's involved. He was engaged those types of things. So a lot of the indicators that we use are in the digital world. But it's not also just to say, Hey, we're successful because x number of people went to our website or this many people engaged with our ad. It's also to help us get better, because we can see what kind of content people like and how they're getting there and why they're getting there. And then what are they doing when they get there. So our Web team does spend an awful lot of time looking at all the different pages that on our website and trying to understand why people would be interested in or how they're getting there. So there's a continuous improvement piece that goes along with the KPs that we do use.

What marketing software and channels do you use to find and engage prospective students? Which are less effective? Which one do you recommend to students to learn?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
uh, there's a lot out there and it depends on what area that you want want to be in. And this is really a question. So our admissions team would use a product which I think it's called like radius, and the benefit to them is that it gives them very much, uh, there's other versions or other companies that make something very similar. But what they're looking at is what are the communication steps that they're taking with, ah, perspective students. So in the marketing sense were using Hub Spot because we're trying to see how many students are engaging with the content along with who. But then also, what are they specifically looking at? So these two pieces of software do similar things, but they do him a little bit differently. So when it comes Thio students and what they should learn, I really think they have to understand first what it is they wanted to do. Uh, you know, we used our We changed our website from an old CMS toe. Drew Peled. Just because we want an open source technology, it allowed us to do a little bit more. I wouldn't you know. I don't know if droop ALS The answer for everybody. It works really well for us because we needed to be able to develop new tools with our website much easier than than the other one. And we needed some really good back in stuff that that it gave us. Um, I will say in our world when we talk about higher education, when you asked about which ones are less effective, I don't know if I use the word effective as much as, UM, which ones tend to create the most challenges and a lot of times in a public university systems you may or may not know you get regulated by whatever system is overseeing you. So we have a number of pieces of software that we use that arm or system wide than they are necessarily to our specific needs. And there's a really good reason for that. But it may not fit our needs as well as maybe that fits some others. So those are the things that sometimes become a little challenging. But, you know, one of the guiding principles we have in our marketing and communications planning is the technology is there to make your life easier I mean, it's a real simple one, but we wrote it into our marketing and communications so that people would understand why we need to use it.

What skills and qualities do you look for while hiring? What kind of questions do you typically ask from candidates?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
you know, the one thing I would say. And when it comes to the skills and qualities is I you know, I'm one. I'm somebody that would say that I convey somebody 80 85% off their attitude. If the attitudes right on the passions right, they're gonna have opportunity to be a really good fit. There's some things we can teach them along the way in terms of how to do some certain things. But if they don't have the right mindset, Um, coming into a workspace like this, it's it's not gonna work out really well, I would say the one thing that in this probably goes back. I mean, I was in journalism school. It seems like 100 years ago now, But, um, I can never underestimate an individual's ability to write and writing skills are incredibly important. I don't necessarily need somebody who could tomorrow walk out and work for a newspaper or anything like that. But they've got to have a strong fundamental understanding of writing, and also it's really good if you have a strong fundamental understanding of editing as well, because we do have to edit a lot of our stuff is well, but if somebody can't right, I don't have a lot of useful because I can still need them to write in social media graphic designers that have a little bit of a writing background or writing skill set, or even more valuable than ones that don't Web content. All those types of things, almost everything we touch has a writing component to it. So that's one thing I really do Look for, um, questions that we asked really sort of center around, trying to understand why Candidate is interested in South Dakota State University and what are they going to bring? And I like the honesty that comes with the answer. I mean, people really have to do a good job selling themselves. But I just, um you know, I just hired a candidate when I talk about a marketing communications director who wasn't making a fundamental change in what he was doing. But he was making a career change from where he was at, and he told me flat up, he said, I'm trying toe work through and make sure this is the change I want to make. And he and I had a really good conversation in the interview process about the why and what I saw and what he saw. And it really sort of helped create what we needed going into this. And he said, Eventually said Yes, I wanna make that career change So, um, the honesty pieces of it as well. But going back to the questions we typically ask, I mean, it's, you know, depending on where we're at with a candidate or how far along they are in their career, Um, it ranges, but really just what's the passion? Why do they wanna be here?

Can you discuss career accomplishment(s) that you feel good about? Please discuss the problem context, your solution, and the impact you made.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
That's a really, really good question. I think what I would probably say, just very general, is, um the jobs that I've had, um you know, I really do think for them, for for the majority of them, I left, you know, you know, certainly leave a job sometimes because it's not the right fit for you, and that happened to me. But I think the jobs where I really stayed in them and wanted them I left the organization better than when I inherited it. Um, if I went back to and I have to do that a little bit differently in every, um, type of position. So if I went back to my athletic days, we had combined some communications or the athletic department of combined some communications areas off the organization in a major major restructuring, and I became the first director of that office. So I had people in my office, they were looking at me going what's gonna happen now? And so, um, that one was really sort of lead by example. Got my hands dirty with them so that we understood that we were all in this together when I came to STS. You I had a completely revamp. Um, this office, you know, repurpose it, find new direction for it sort of changed the mentality of how it was gonna work. Um, just toe, get it into where we needed to be, you know, moving forward. And, um, yeah, that was hard at times. And, you know, when I got here, there was, you know, every employee had a chance. Um, some, you know, we had to make some changes somewhere, very understanding the changes. Some came to me and said, This isn't for me and I really respected those decisions, you know, moving forward. So I think that's where I probably, you know, discuss the crew accomplishments. I'm getting old enough now that I love to see young people come in and you know, whether it's a entry level, 2 to 3 year deal and see them grow and expand and where they end up down the road is always very fulfilling a swell. So I'd probably say those things are my how it's sort of you. The accomplishment piece

What responsibilities and decisions did you handle? What were the top three priorities and pain points? What strategies were effective in dealing with challenges?

Based on experience at: Director of Athletic Communications, University of Minnesota
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
so responsibilities. There were a little bit different marketing piece wasn't as prominent as it is here because it was really Mawr Communications related. Uh, we worked while I was the director of the office and work closely with our administration. Most people, my office, were also responded responsible for working with one, if not more, of the intercollegiate athletics team. So I spent an awful lot of time with the football team there as well. So that was everything from game day activities to offseason to recruiting, you know, messaging in and around some of those things as well. Um, you know, the pain points there were. You know, when you're in intercollegiate athletics, everything is based on winning and losing. Um, that's how you know that's where the public comes and pays tickets is to watch it is to watch you win. But we're also working with, uh, student athletes. And in this case, my case, young men 18, 19, 20 years old who were on paths to earn degrees from a major university in the world. And so, you know, being able to tell that story, um, being able to enjoy that journey with them, uh, was was very, very important. But at the same time, you still have to balance the pressure of the winning in the losing that went with it. We're in a major media market. Um, you know, any time you're in a market with competing newspapers becomes challenging Andi. That's something we had to sort of live with at the University of Minnesota and manage as well. You know, the strategies and they were effective in dealing with the challenges. You know one thing we always told student athletes, Andi, I'll just kind of leave it with them Is that what they're representing is certainly there's a piece of it is them themselves, but they're also representing three University of Minnesota. So we've worked with them a lot on media training and those types of things in terms of how to handle some of those difficult questions and what they were representing and why. So we did a lot off that type of stuff with them to really sort of position them in a positive way.

What college programs did you attend and what were their best parts? How did each of your college programs prepare you for your career?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
um, so I Well, that's a That's kind of interesting question. Um, so I was, I think, a journalism major. As I said when I did my undergraduate, um, degree. But then when I was in athletics is when I got my Masters and I was at the University of Minnesota. So at that time being in athletics, I was gonna kind of interesting where that was gonna go. So I got my masters and applied kinesiology, which trust me, I don't know anything about the movement of the body, but the applied kinesiology was where they had the sports management program. And so really, my Masters was in sports management, but really a fascinating program at the University of Minnesota, and I and I learned a lot. But as you know, as I said before, my experiences and what I gained along the way were tremendous. From an internship at the University of Minnesota to being, um, the director of the athletic communications to my publicly traded companies. I tell the story. When I was in the publicly traded company, I went thio New York City with our CEO for a media tour, flew to Chicago for a promotion with a, uh, parental car company in the 85 then had to go to one of our plants in Iowa to Dio of of a shoot with the History Channel for modern marvels at the time. So and it was span of a week, I went from basically Wall Street to Chicago to one of our plants and did three very different things. And so that experience, you can't get anywhere else but there. So, um, you know, I do, as I tell our students here, um, get very serious about your academic programs and your grades, but get the experience along the way when you can't especially in this world is that'll be extremely valuable.

What three life lessons have you learned over your career? If any, please also discuss your experiences facing adversity, or trying something unusual.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
sure. So the life lessons that I probably learned over my career are, you know, the honesty and integrity. Um, you don't You don't always need to be liked, but you've got to be respected. And, um, the respect comes from the honest and the integrity. I think the other thing is, you know, when it comes to working for a company very similar to people out, they sometimes approach their core. Their their lives is staying true to your core values. If you're in a situation where the company that you don't agree, um, with the core values or the direction of that company, you're not gonna like it. It's just it's just not gonna be something, Um, that's for you. And then I think the other thing, too. When it comes toe, you're only as good as the people you work with. So while I may be the director of this officer, I get credit for something. Um, I just I know the people on the other side of this wall here are the ones that are probably more responsible for it than I many of the times, and so I'm only as good as as them. So I've got to be there to support them and make sure they're in a position to be successful. Because if they're not successful and I'm not successful, and if I'm not successful, then others aren't successful. And so it's really stepping. Stone Thio Organizational structure Um, you know his experience in terms of facing adversity from a professional, uh, professional perspective. You know, I had a boss Tell me, um, one time that somebody is going to let you go from a job you thought you loved. And I thought, What boy? What does that mean? But I've been in that situation where I had to have that mutual separation with, ah company because it just wasn't beneficial toe either one of us, and it's a hard thing to face, and it's a hard thing to deal with. But unfortunately, it is something that comes along for a lot of people in their professional careers. And you use that type of diversity. Thio make yourself better. Um, you know, in terms of trying something unusual I did. I went from athletics to the renewable fuels in industry. And you hear this sometime that some certain person can't be a good higher because they don't understand industry X. But if you're a good communicator and you understand good communications, um, you can learn Company X And that was a little bit of my approach with, um, biofuels because I moved back to South Dakota, moved to South Dakota, just, uh, and had a big learning curve with it. But the reality was I understood communications, and so I could learn a lot about the renewable fuel industries pretty easily, so I would say that was probably something unusual.

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Nov 11 2020
sometimes it's the one you can get. Um, you know, the other thing I had somebody told me once early on is that, you know, sometimes sometimes you grow faster by taking the job nobody wants. And, um, I had one of those situations early after an internship where I took a job where I thought, Why would anybody really want this? And it turned out to be a really good experience. Uh, I would recommend the students that in this world were in this area of marketing and communications. Uh, your first job is the one where not so much you get the the ability to do everything you want. But what's the one you're going to be the most passionate about again? I'm gonna go back to that and talk about just your desire to be involved in what you want to be involved in. And if you can find something that area most passionate about, that's a great place to start. You know, the dudes and the don't, um, that you would give is I think the big thing is, if you get into the right situation to you're gonna be around very experienced people. And so the opportunity to grow and learn from others. But it's also profession that requires a lot of listening and a lot of collaboration as well, too. So go in with an open mind, open ears and also the idea that you can learn from others, and I think you'd be really successful.