Darla Moore School of Business MBA / IMBA, International Business / Finance
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How did you get to where you are today? What is your story? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
I have a very nonstandard path to the CFO office. I was an English major in undergraduate, and I didn't really know what to do when I left school. I ended up going to Poland to visit some friends for about a month, and it turned into a four year stay. And during that period I worked for a German guy who just kept giving me interesting things to do and a lot of opportunities to learn. Along the way, I recognized that there were some gaps in my experience. So I went back to get my MBA at the University of South Carolina, and from there, um, I expected I just thought of myself as a business person. Um, the most aggressive kind of recruiter for um, for my internship was from Ford Ford Motor Company, and it was a finance job, and I just kind of thought that's not for May, but they just kept, you know, really trying to convince me. And finally I agreed to do it. So I went down to Brazil and to the Ford plant in Sao Paulo and ended up loving the business and actually kind of enjoyed being being in finance I'll get to that in a little bit. Why? I like finance. Um, So I spent 10 years with Ford Motor Company in a variety of roles in finance, um, in South America, in the U. S. And in Sweden. And then, um, when I came back when we came back from Sweden, had a wife and two kids, we moved five times in 10 years, and that was just getting to be too much. So I decided to leave forward on because we didn't want to stay in Michigan. Onda. We picked to come to Philadelphia, which is where I grew up. And that's where I made my entrance into software. So I've been in software since 2000 and 11. Andi, I'm on my third company now, which we just sold about 10 day about four weeks ago. So very unusual path. Andi, the lesson that I take from that that I would give to anybody, and I tell this to young people all the time. Number one. The first job you get out of school is probably not what you're gonna do for your career, so don't don't don't get too upset about it. Don't get too worked up about it, I think second is, um if anyone offers to teach you something or give you an opportunity to learn, take it full stop. Don't worry what the job is, but the company is or what the functional role is. If somebody's gonna give you a chance to learn early in your career, take it.

What responsibilities and decisions does one handle in a job like yours? What are the top three priorities? What are weekly work hours like?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
Yeah, All right. So, finance in general, you could break it into two major chunks. There's the accountants who keep the books. And then there's the um it's called financial planning and analysis. It's the people who work with the business to help help make good decisions and execute on those decisions. So I'd like to think about the role of CFO who brings both of those things together in terms of table stakes and the high value functions. The table stakes are maintaining financial controls, right? How cash comes in and goes out of business, maintaining accurate, reliable accounts right and finally delivering reliable, accurate financial statements. That's kind of the basics. But if that's all you're doing as the CFO, you're not actually adding value because nobody in the business cares about your accounting or your financial controls. No customer is ever won or saved because of good financial statements, and no product is ever developed because of, you know, strong financial controls. So the high value three are number one enable everyone else to do their jobs to the best of their ability. So finance is part of an area. The business called DNA General Administration and that's where all the kind of the operating system of the businesses and that's finance HR people legal procurement, facilities, management, etcetera. I t right. So my and in a small company like mine, the CFO does all that. So I am the chief information officer in my company. I am our internal general general counsel. I am. Even though I'm not a lawyer, I am our chief procurement officer, and our chief people officer works for May. So, um and I love that. That's awesome, because that gives me the span of control to make everything easier for everyone else. Um, salespeople are great selling people. They shouldn't be thinking about what I t Should they buy, right? Um, they shouldn't be thinking about what, um, compliance. What are my policies in compliance with state law they shouldn't be thinking about. They should just be out there selling. So that's number one enable everyone else to do their jobs better. Number two is optimizing operations and processes around the business. So there is no place in a company with a really good CFO. There's no place where the CFO is not welcome and doesn't have an opinion. And then number three is bringing business acumen, an insight to every conversation. If you on Lee talk accounts and controls and numbers, the business tunes out and you're not effective. So you have to understand their business and their function not not as well as they do to do it. But you've got to know what they do and really understand that cycles they go through the process is they go through the challenges they face and the stories they tell themselves that sometimes they're just not true, right? So a good CFO is a generalist. First and foremost, um, they're good business people who your data and numbers to bring insight. But But again, if you're just stuck in the books and the debits and credits, you're not adding value to the business. The other cool thing about the CFO role is besides the CEO, it's the only role in the business that has a holistic, complete view of the company and the customer and the products. And that s O number one. That's why you have to be a generalist, right? You gotta be ableto bounce from a product management decision. Thio Marketing operations plan planning, meeting Thio, people you know, HR issues Thio getting on the phone with your outside counsel and negotiate, you know, working through a contract, you got to do all that, and that's that's a you know, that's what an eight hour day looks like for me. Eight or 10 hour day. Um, the CFO is the trusted adviser to the business, but you're also the credible challenger. The sea CFOs are really good. CFOs the best CFOs are great story tellers. They know how to take data, turn it into a story that a business person can really understand, get their arms around and then start making decisions about yeah.

What are major challenges and pain points in a job like yours? What approaches are effective in overcoming them? Discussing examples will help students learn better.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
Yeah, absolutely. So one of the major. So one thing is, if you're doing all that stuff, it's really hard to figure out how to balance your time or manage your time to get the right balance. Um, for example, when I came into this role, um, my chief technology officer So the top product person in the company was also running our internal. I t That's crazy, right? That's a distraction. And he wasn't doing it well because he didn't pay attention to it. So we had no access control policies we had. You know, we had old users who had been out of the company for 10 years or five years, probably. Um and, you know, we had a brutal tech sack because people just bought whatever they wanted and nothing hung together. So I took that over and pretty quickly it consumed me because we were so far behind. And that meant the CEO and the business people weren't getting the benefit of, you know, my acumen, my insights, my data. And that was a real problem. For a while, the CEO really had to kind of say, hold on Second, you need to really rethink this and the tactic that I used was I started. It sounds silly, but I started creating kind of functional chunks to my day. So my the first two hours of my day are all contracts. Um, so I review all of our contracts with our customers and with our vendors. So I do that between 7. 30 and 9 30. And then if it doesn't get done at that point, it goes on the desk, and I come back to it tomorrow. And people have to get used to the fact that they couldn't send me a contract at noon and get it back to them by 2 p.m. It's not gonna happen. Um, so it was about really sitting down and thinking about how much time should be spending on each of these areas. So I've got it now where I t I spend maybe half an hour a day and an hour a week with my I t team. Otherwise, don't talk to me about I t. Stuff because I'm working on something else and asking yourself what is through the what? What can I do that brings the most value to the business? And that's where I spend most of my time now. Um, other examples are I told you, um, we're humans, right? And we like to tell ourselves stories, and we kind of have accepted versions of the fact fax sales people, for example. Um, you know, have 100 different reasons why that deal didn't happen, right? And it's full often a lot of anecdotes, So that's really painful for me. That's really hard for me to help them get better, because we're just dealing with anecdotes. So in that example, what I would do is I sit down with the sales team. I start pulling a bunch of data. You know, what's our average cycle time? What's our win rate? What's our pipeline to close? One coverage? Yeah, our conversion rate. Just a bunch of data, right? And start building a model for what our sales cycle looks like. And then we go through that every month and every quarter. Build a forecast, and we know exactly all the assumptions. And so then if we don't hit the number, all we have to do is go back up the process and figure out where we fell down. And it's not an anecdote It's not that it was raining or we had a big snowstorm, So I you know, So I couldn't sell all the cars that were on my lot. No, its data. Let's let's let's get to the fax because then we know. Alright, The problem was we didn't create enough pipeline. So what are we gonna do next quarter to create enough pipeline? Um, some of the other pain points are and this is this is difficult for especially junior finance people getting in the room. A lot of business people think of finance as you know, either just a bunch of bean counters or scorekeepers. They don't always have the experience, um, of having a trusted partner sitting next to them, helping them make decisions better and execute better. And that's all we dio finance people. We don't sell anything. We don't develop anything. We don't cut anything. We don't support any customers and we don't service anything, right? So the only thing that we do that really brings value is when we can help everybody do their job better

How would you describe your management style? How has it evolved over the years? Can you tell about experiences or books that influenced your management style?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
Yeah, absolutely. So, um, I've got kind of So yes, my leadership style has evolved and it evolved because of the people that I work with. And four when I was at Ford. For it is a very hierarchical organization, lots of rules. And, you know, the top the top is pretty strong. And that was kind of my style when I was at forward, because that's what the Ford style waas And as I kind of moved up, I adopted more and more of the behaviors that I saw around me. And it was it was a very kind of dictatorial is not the word. It's very, um, top down, right? And the leader and the style of the people is very rigid, very kind of rules oriented. Andi, it kind of makes sense. You're talking about a multibillion dollar business. When you open a plant, you're making a multibillion dollar decision, right? When you decide to build the Bronco or not build the Bronco, you're making a million a billion dollar bet. And so, like, yeah, you gotta have a lot of rules, right? And you gotta have a lot of clear accountability for who made that decision on DSO. The person who is making that decision is gonna put a lot of pressure on the people around them and they're not going to delegate authority, right? They're gonna keep it to themselves because they can't afford having somebody else screw that up. But when you get out, When I came out of Ford, I went into a company that had about 800 people, and they had hired me from a big company experience. Well, I almost blew up in six months. It got to the point where the CEO wanted to fire me because I brought my Ford Leaderships out with me, took a company that was founded in Sweden. The CEO had been the CFO and he was employee number three. And, you know, um, it was 60% non US business. 60% of what went through a channel not through our sales team and it was really distributed were in about 30 or 40 countries. So, you know, it was a totally different business, and I failed to account for that and totally different culture. The CEO had built that business as a it was a reflection of him. And so when I walked around. I basically said You do. What? That's insane. That's crazy. We're not doing that anymore. I was insulting him, right? I was telling him this baby was ugly and, um yeah, so I got really close to getting fired by the CEO, and, um, one of the leaders that I, you know, I attribute my leadership style to was Bill Sorenson. He was a CFO, and he sat me down. He said, we have a problem. Lars wants to fire you. Um, eso He got me some help from one of our HR business partners who coached me, too, and got me some books to read to think about. What is it the business was really asking you for? Yes. They want your big company experience, right? They want to experience with process. But did they Did they ask you for a big company attitude? We're not a big company, right? So I had to really think about it and look around and see. How do people behave around here? How do people treat each other around here? Who makes decisions here? Eso Obviously I changed because I stayed there for almost four years. And the leadership style that I believe I bring and that I admire is one of absolute transparency. So, you know, a finance person is no good if you can't be trusted. An untrustworthy finance person is an unemployed finance person. Eso You have to be very transparent. People need to understand that you may, if you make a decision or if you tell them. First of all, I don't tell people No, I say yes, but here's how we're going to do it. Or but we're not gonna do it that way. Let's figure out a different way to get to your business objective. Um, but if you're going to challenge somebody, they have to first and foremost believe that you're coming from a place of good intentions. That wasn't always the case of Ford. Ford had a lot of politics, right? And people played games in the finance. People kept all their numbers close to the chest right until the end of the meeting. And then they would say, huh? Right. You guys don't know what you're talking about here. I've got all the data. I control the data. So I'm going to tell you what the what? The right answer is Yeah, it works to some extent, it forward. And I'm sure that culture has changed in the past 10 years since I've been there. But, um, nobody believed anybody was coming anywhere with good intentions. Probably exaggeration, but not not entirely. So I have to be transparent about my motivations. I have to be transparent about the data and I'm using. I have to share it transparently. We oftentimes I need to build the data set with the business people. So then they own the mechanism that we're using to make the decision. Um, and I said, you got to be trustworthy, right? You gotta You gotta do what you say you're gonna do. And if you don't do it, you've got to be open about and say I screwed up, right? That's my fault. This this mistake that happened, That's me. Because the next time that you call them on a mistake, they're gonna remember that you didn't try and finger pointing blame and that you took accountability. Um, you gotta be. I think you just got to be on a human, I think is the word or, um, authentic, right? Um, yeah, and all the good Boston that I've had were funny, had a sense of humor. They had a life outside of work. Yep, they had an interest of something or another. Um, and when I think about being a leader of people, that's about me thinking about leading a company. Um, when I'm thinking about being a leader of people like the people on my team or another teams the I think the most important thing is, um, recognizing the opportunity to teach somebody because that guy in Germany recognized the opportunity for me to learn stuff. I had a marketing person work for working for me, who she used to call me Uncle Moneybags. And she, uh, she came down to my my stage, my workstation. She said, Hey, Uncle Moneybags buying some software. Here's the contract. You can review the terms and negotiate the pricing. I said, Oh, no, she was a junior marketing person. Said, No, no, no, that's not the way we're doing this. And I actually coached her through the process of negotiating price with a vendor looking for, you know, some of the red lines on the contract. And, you know, I said, you're gonna your marketing person. You're gonna be spending money, you know, as you grow as you go up in your career. Let's start right now and figure out, you know, teach you how to do it and do it. Smart on bats. One of things I loved about being in a business the size of target X. We're about 85 employees, and the average age is probably about 27 30. Um, I love being I didn't expect it, but it's an opportunity that I've come to really enjoy. I love being surrounded by people who are early in their career, and I'm like I'm in touch with them because we're such a small company and I get to feel like I'm, you know, sharing some of my experience with them and seeing them learn so as a as a leader is a style. I think of myself as an educator, not a boss.

How do you manage conflicts within and across teams? How do you promote trust, openness and a healthy work culture? Sharing stories will greatly help.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
number one. You got a model? The behavior. Um, I work one company, I it's on my resume, but it will remain nameless. Um, the leaders there did not trust each other, um, openly disrespected each other and privately were, you know, like, insulting of each other. Um, and it was a real problem. It was a real problem. And it also made my job really difficult because I could ma, I could be transparent. I could be trustworthy, but it has to be received. Two, right? And so the people in sales, they all the way down from their boss. The word waas finance a bunch of idiots. They don't know anything, right? And all they're trying to do is get in the way. Well, then, if I put out the hand say, hey, let me help you figure out a better way to plan your sales capacity. No, you're just looking for a way in the door so that you can tell me I can't hire sales people. Right. Um so number one that has to be modeled by leaders. Um, we have to demonstrate that we trust our peers that we can speak to them respectfully. We can disagree. We better disagree. If everybody agrees all the time, you're you're you're just talking to yourselves. You're in. You're in a echo chamber. Um, but you got to disagree respectfully. You have to acknowledge people's, um, areas of strength. So I'm not going to tell the CTO, you know, you shouldn't be building on Ruby on rails anymore. That's ancient technology. Like, if that's the decision, like let's we're gonna talk it out, right. We are gonna talk it out because there's some reasons that we wouldn't want to be doing that. But I gotta let him make the decisions about the product. Otherwise, I'm doing this job. I don't have time for that. And I'm not that good. Um, so you gotta acknowledge their strength. You gotta acknowledge their areas of, um, not independence. It's their area of influence, I guess the place, the places where they really have the responsibility and the ability to make the decisions, um then healthy, healthy work, culture. How do you get so promoting a healthy words culture, I think, is, as I said, much more about doing and demonstrating than saying, Right, um, you know our cultural values one of the ones that kind of his strongest to me is raised the bar right? And that means kind of Every time you do something, try and make it better, right? Whenever you give yourself a challenge, give yourself a big give big challenges, right? So I can't talk about that to my team saying, Hey, now is the time for you to raise the bar, right? And without me demonstrating it, right. So I have to raise the bar every time I do something I have to learn from my mistakes. And that's how you promote a strong, healthy work culture. Um, I think also, as I said, you've got to be like, you gotta be human. Warm, personable, funny. Got to care about people. Um, you gotta like I know everybody. Everybody that works for me directly. I know their spouse's names. I know there jobs, another kids names. And it's not just as a it's not just a tool, right? I don't just do it because I never works. I do it because I'm genuinely interested in who they are and that they under the that comes across right. So then when we do have the difficult discussion about. Hey, this project didn't go the way it was supposed to go. Let we're gonna talk about or that behavior I just saw is not acceptable. We're gonna talk about it. There's there's a whole context to that conversation that, um, goes back to that thing about, you know, being trusted and being transparent.

How can one get better recognition of work from one's boss and higher management? What mistakes should one avoid? Stories or examples will be quite helpful.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
um, that's a good question. And and depending on the company in the culture, it might be just a really, really problem. And you're never gonna break out eso if you live. If you are in a culture where, um you know, senior management is totally distant from the lowest level and the process and the people are actually doing the work, then you're probably never gonna get seen. It's gonna be really hard, but if you're in a place and it doesn't matter how big it is, So when I worked at Ford, I was 34 levels. Look, yeah, no, actually, it's five levels below the CFO, but because of my job, right, I wrote all of his. I wrote all of the earnings releases and the one thing that was good about forward finance had a really strong internal culture on dso. You know, it wasn't that I drafted it, and then my boss's boss took it into the room. I took it into the room, right. So don leclair knew my name. Eso that if you find a company where that is the case where you know, people get to see you doing the work even if you're in a team, are you presenting your work? Even in a team, you can you can still have an impact, right? You can still be seen. I would also say you should worry more about having impact, then being seen, because if you have impact, you will get seen. But if you're just cornering to be seen, you're not having impact. And in fact, people are gonna You're gonna get a reputation right for a grand standard. Someone who takes credit for other people's work. Um, so if you can have impact, you will eventually get seen and the people who aren't having impact Yeah, you know, you do have to work harder to be successful. Yes, yes. And sometimes that means you do more work than other people on the team. This isn't school anymore. This isn't grad school. This isn't undergrad where you know everyone's going to get a grade one way or the other. No. And I don't want to make it sound like it's a competition. But you know, if the project fails, you go down. That's it. Eso You may have to do extra work and you might have people who don't do a lot of work. Sooner or later, you're gonna get the promotion. They're notdon't focus on being seen or getting credit, focus on having impact and ultimately the rest of it will come with come to you.

What indicators are used to track performance in a job like yours? Think of the indicators such as key performance indicators (KPIs), objectives & key results (OKRs), or so on.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
Yeah, Way use. Okay, Ours, um, objectives and key results. And we set them for the company at the beginning of the year on Ben. Sometimes we'll adjust if we think it's necessary, but generally we tend toe. Want to think hard and long. About what the Okay, Ours are for the year and set them. And some some of them could be multi year. Okay, are you? But then we cascade them down. So then each one of those me and the chief people officer, we look at them and say, All right, how do we translate? Translate them into Okay, Ours for the DNA organization and finance in particular. Um, and so everyone from And then when we kind of talked to begin the year about with our teams about what our objectives are, what are key results are, um and then we translate that into. And you, Jimmy, you know, hear your objectives for the first quarter, right? And here the key results. We're gonna tell us if you're if you achieve the objectives or not, and that ties to this company objective, right? And by the way, my objective to help you know is related to what you're doing. I need what you're doing to achieve my objective for the company who treated subjective. So it's got to be aligned top to bottom and you got to talk about it. You gotta review them. Um, if you do them once a quarter and don't talk about them, there's no they have no no impact. So we have monthly, all hands, and we have quarterly all hands meetings we always start off talking about. Where are we? Against our Okay, Ours. And as a management team, I built the process at Target X, called the Executive Operating Operating Review, and one month are three hours a month. All of us put down what we're doing and we check in on each other and report back about how are we actually doing? And if we're if we're red or yellow on something, what are we doing to fix it? And sometimes the fixing it is someone who someone else in the room, right? I need something from, um so if I'm, for example, if we're not getting product adoption, that's an objective for the product management team, but they can't. They don't have as many relationships with customers as our customers. Success team. Right? So that's why we have to all get together and agree. What's the root cause for the problem? Why we read why we yellow What are the things that have to be done and who does them And by when? And then we come back next month and we say, Okay. Did you do what you said you're going to last month?

What skills and qualities do you look for while hiring? What kind of questions do you typically ask from candidates?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
depends on the role. So if I'm looking at for a financial analyst, um, I'm looking for somebody who is comfortable dealing with vast amounts of data and by dealing with it, I mean managing it, wrangling it, um, I definitely in any role I'm looking for people who are comfortable with technology. Um, I'm looking for curiosity. Um, I'm looking for I'm not necessarily looking for a business degree or even Yeah, I have. Some of the best finance people have had are like me, um, people who came out of humanity's, especially if you get more senior, because the communication, the ability, right, clearly the ability to tell a story that you learn in humanities more than you learn in the sciences or business school, um, is critical Higher. You know, you get in finance, I'm looking for So I'm looking for people who are genuinely interested in helping others succeed, because that's what finance does. And I'm looking for people who, um, are accountable, right? Who? So? So that's the qualities of skills that I'm looking for. So I asked questions about things like that. Um, you know, the obvious ones like tell me about a time that you failed. And what was the, You know, What did you do? What did you learn from it? And what would you do differently? Um, really great question is, um you know, you're talking through your resume, some person talking to you to resume. And, um, you know, when they finished talking about one particular job in their career, I'd like to ask. All right, what's one thing you would never do again? And what's one thing you definitely do again from that experience and some great, really great stories come out of it on it gives me a really good lens. Um, you know, on a woman's ability to be honest, right? Because that one thing you wouldn't do again if somebody asked me that story I tell the story about walking in to click with afford mindset and getting blown up nearly getting blown up. I'm never gonna do that again.

Can you discuss career accomplishment(s) that you feel good about? Please discuss the problem context, your solution, and the impact you made.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
Well, yeah, Selling the company certainly is a big accomplishment. I was also involved with the biggest Ed Tech exit in 2015, which was illusion, which we transacted for $3.5 billion. It was a big deal. This is not so big. Um, the teams that I have left behind everywhere that I've gone, I've improved the effectiveness of the finance organization and improved the professionalism of the finance organization. And oftentimes I've built brand new processes and they're still doing those things today. And that's a really cool feeling to know that you're leaving. You put your fingerprint on the company and some people, and you know, you have a lasting impact after you left. Um, it's been my ambition for several years to be a CFO, So I'm proud that I achieved that. Um, and I think I guess the other part of my career I'm particularly proud of is the international perspective that I have. I spent almost 15 years working and living overseas, and that distinguishes me from 95% of the finance people in America. Um, and that that comes that that is the deciding factor has been the deciding factor several times in me getting a job. Um, and I'm proud of. I'm proud. It's kind of a personal achievement, but I use it in my professional life. I'm proud that I could speak four languages because I spent 15 years overseas.

What three life lessons have you learned over your career? If any, please also discuss your experiences facing adversity, or trying something unusual.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
a job is a job. But if somebody offers you an opportunity to learn something new, take it. Um be aware of your weaknesses and the gaps in your experience and your knowledge and remedy it. I I knew that there was stuff about the business world I didn't know is an English major. It was too late to go back toe college and changed my degree. So I went got India instead. Um, so be aware of those gaps and figure out ways to fix. It's not always education. It could be experience. It could be reading. It could be a mentor, a mentoring program. But be aware of those gaps and address them because ultimately, if you don't, they're gonna hold you back. And, um, be smart about your time. It's really easy to waste your time. And it's the one thing you just never have enough of

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Mon Nov 16 2020
uh, you could try teaching in high school. I did that. You could try teaching English as a second language. I did that. Um, no, I don't think there's any specific job I would say you should get. Obviously. Depends on what you want to do when you grow up. And you might not even know that if you had asked me when I was 21. 22. Do you wanna be a CFL? Hell, no. No way. I was going to be a musician or writer or chef, Something creative and eso you may not even know. The first job you get is probably not what you're gonna do for your career. And, um, if anything, judge the learning potential of the job. You're you're you're early job. Should all about should be all about three. Opportunity to learn. George Bush used to talk about, um, learn, earn serve. And it's a pretty good way to think about your career. Um, it's better to trade off money for learning in the early part of your career because it will. It will accelerate your earning as you move up the ladder. Um, you know, taking $150,000 job that's just doing power points for consulting firm. I'm not sure that that's, you know, some people. That's a great job, right? But it might just be a paycheck, right? And you might not get a chance to learn anything in that job, because all you're doing is power points. Someone else's out in the field working with the customer. You're just sitting in the office doing the power points or the Excel spreadsheets. Um, but you're getting a lot of money to do it. Um ah, lot of those people don't ever get to be a managing director or partner. That's just the way it is, their pyramids, right? And it's pretty now at the top, Um, but if you go out and learn and you get really good at something and you spend years in that industry, guess what. Guess where a lot of senior bankers come from. They come out of industry, so I think you should focus on the opportunity to learn in the beginning. Then you learn. Don't worry