MetaSepia Inc , CTO, cofounder
University of San Francisco None, BS, MIS studies
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How did you get to where you are today? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path? What inspired you to work on this startup idea?

Summarized By: Karan Bhatia on Mon Sep 14 2020
Well, by a matter of faith, I was born in Silicon Valley, so I was raised in Silicon Valley. I benefited from all the companies in Silicon Valley. At time I was raised here, there were a lot of electronic companies, intel and others were just starting out. There was a lot way for manufacturing, a lot of silicon and personal computer activity, and with all these companies, money spills out to the various schools. There are a lot of clubs that were here. The Homebrew Computer Club, which had jobs, and Wozniak, who I got to meet many times. In virtue of being raised in Silicon Valley exposes you to the financial institutions, the investors, for instance, the banks, the research centers and a lot of companies that we have here. Stanford University is five miles away, Palo Alto is a mile and a half away. And so just by being in this cauldron, which I would call it now, but back then, I would call it just, a playground, was really good. Also the many companies that hire people here, for instance, I was very fortunate to join Xerox Parc, which is very famous for introducing the graphical user in system, the Ethernet, there are so many aspects of what we use every day to day. So by being born here or being raised here, benefiting from the largest of the companies, that funded these local clubs and the institutions and then going through the educational system here was very, very novel, I think.

What is the elevator pitch of your startup? What problem does it solve? How were your customers solving their pain point before your startup?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
I don't have an elevator pitch here. The problem with MetaSepia that we're addressing actually involves both the pandemic and mobile payments. My background as a serial entrepreneur for me for different companies is in the mobile offline payments area, which means that I work on electronic payment cards, cards with electronic circuits inside of them that can be used. I worked on mobile devices for payments. When I developed the mobile NFC, 15 years ago and introduced that, while they are adopted by Apple pay and Google pay, there's been a problem with the adoption of NFC, in general, is very slow in America. People that have adopted QR codes more often. And so the new company addresses the people that are using QR codes and are comfortable with them but aren't really comfortable with mobile NFC because of hacking all these other issues, cancer issues, even they claim, which isn't true. So I wanted to address this by, by actually making an optical transaction between two phones that uses a QR code like element. I use color from my element, which is a much higher bit density, and the ability of my phones is that they can authenticate each other, go through a mutual authentication process, go through a security process. QR codes can't do this. NFC can do this. So I thought, by merging the QR code transaction process with the high security of the mobile NFC that might be a good solution. Coincidentally, because of the pandemic, a transaction from 30 or 50 centimeters away is probably more interesting than one that requires you to tap the phones together.

Can you walk us through your first few weeks when you started working on this project? How did things change over the next few months?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Few weeks not a lot happened. In terms of the project itself, firstly, I came up with an idea, I found partners that I had already met in the industry from my mobile NFC experience, I realized the value of strong partnerships. And so I formed a partnership in two weeks. Basically, we agreed on shareholding and what we would do and contact an attorney that I already knew to incorporate the company. Over the next few months I then raised money in this case, I provided myself and my partners about $200,000. And then our goal was to obtain patents, build the team, and then provide a demo of the technology. This is about a 1.5-year process, it consumed about $200,000 so far but I built a very good international team, for this project. What's changed in the project over the past year is that my team is very virtual now, which is very good with the pandemic once again. So I have partners in Switzerland, partners in England, Cambridge, partners here at Stanford. So, we have a great team. We have three issue patents now, and in another week, we're going to have a demonstration of our technology.

What were the challenges in building the initial team and how did you overcome them? How did the team's composition, dynamics, time, and resource commitment evolve?

Summarized By: Karan Bhatia on Mon Sep 14 2020
Okay, building the team for this company, based upon my prior experience of the past 25 years, as a serial entrepreneur. It was very easy to build a team. I already knew the team members I more or less wanted. There was one group that I needed to find, a high security, what's called EMB payments company. And the Companies in America, we're very involved with the new roll out of the tap to pay, mobile to mobile transaction payments from these and MasterCard. They weren't available, so I found somebody in Switzerland. It was fairly straightforward just contacting these people, but I was very fortunate. Many of the people that worked for me have worked for me through the previous two companies, including the mobile NFC company. The mobile NFC company had a novel experience in that, I formed a company with my next-door neighbor, and then we built a transaction device that we demonstrated to MasterCard, and it was just to take an existing payment terminal that has a magnetic strike. Putting a film inside of the stripe, its very crude now this is my demo. And then using your phone to transmit, transmit the magnetic stripe. What this showed is the probability of the process. And then our pitch to the investors was give us money so that we can reduce something like this to something on a chip level on a silicon wafer, which is very expensive in terms of hardware. And so making that transition was a little bit easy and that once we met master card, we had a champion and with every company I've had, we have to have a champion, a significant and industry validation source like MasterCard, Visa, American Express. These have all worked with me. So when I approach investors, typically they'd like to bet the investment and having a strong partner behind you that will also be your potential acquirer. And certainly a customer validates the opportunity that validation can be a very high initial series-A funding. But as you may know, with each successive round, you've got to double or triple that high evaluation, so these people would argue, don't make it too high. Don't go for a $20 million valuation if you're only a year old and you put $100,000 into this with three people. You can't go that high. But of course, being the first time, I didn't realize that. But the compounding effect of run on investment can have an impact on it. So having met people through MasterCard now, it's very easy to have contact with the executives at MasterCard, Visa and all the brands. And they, in turn, can provide referrals to, really good programmers and others that we need as consultant.

How did your venture get its first professional funding? What were the challenges and how were they overcome? How'd your fundraising efforts change in subsequent rounds?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Well, obviously, as a serial entrepreneur, you can a lot of feedback, a lot of experience, a lot of rejection, a tremendous amount of rejection. Don't discount the amount of rejection you're going to have, but in terms of fundraising now, it's just much easier now, it's a matter of finding the right people and this means investors that will participate in the activities of the company and will provide more than just money and preferably at this stage of my experience and raising funds for various companies, now I'll go directly to the institutional partners, it would be the ones that would actually use my product. So that means PayPal, Amazon pay, Samsung, Visa Master card, KPMG people such as this. And once again, as I mentioned because of my previous companies I'm very fortunate to be able to have contact directly with the CSO staff, the CTO and CEO of these companies, and that helps a lot. So fundraising now is very different than fundraising in my mobile NFC company, which once again wasn't that difficult because with Master card behind you, we would end up with several syndicates wanting to invest and they formed syndicates because they know they're going to have to provide, in the case of UO Tech, over a $100 million into the company. And so they form these syndicates, and then you select the syndicate that you feel most comfortable with. In my case, we selected one on the basis of an EIR an entrepreneur and residents, a Stanford MBA graduate that had already successfully managed other companies. So we made our selection based upon what he could provide to the VCS and our company, besides the money itself. So you have to think sometimes beyond the money to help you. In terms of MetaSepia, our funding is probably another month away. We're having our demo next week, a zoom demo with Visa and others. So I expect our running will probably occur in typically two or three months after you make the first administration.

How did you set the scope for your minimal viable product? How did you get to product-market fit? How did your product evolve over time?

Summarized By: Karan Bhatia on Mon Sep 14 2020
That's a fairly easy question too. These are Pretty easy at this point The scope was set by our institutional investors. This is an advantage. When we first developed mobile NFC, we actually developed it around a chaos of smartphone. And the swipe terminals that were out there, these pin pad type swipe terminals, magnetic strike. To move beyond that, we need to have an institutional investor that would outline what the goals were in terms of the specifications the repeatability, the reliability, the devices and so forth. In the beginning with the mobile NFC company, nobody had NFC phones and chips were just being made by Sony and Philips, and nobody had thought to put them in phones. And so that was what we did, to put them into the phones and then coupled into the circuitry and the phone to allow NFC. And this is what the Mobile FC company in terms of MetaSepia, the optical company that would, in effect, compete with the mobile NFC company so I'm cannibalizing my own market share in a way, the scope once again was determined by my two partners and myself, my two partner groups, these are multinational corporations in terms of meeting existing standard, an existing specification. This is known as EMB or Europ A, MasterCard and Visa. It's a communications photo protocol on the security protocol. And so by converting optical to use this protocol, which QR codes can't use which nothing else optical can use, that enables us to compare apples and apples or apples and oranges better, that is, we have an optical method of payments. There's an NFC method of payments, but the security is the same, the processes are same, the protocol of communications is the same between them. So by going with the route of a standard payment application, this enables us to conform to the existing rails that are out there rather than creating new rails, which is what I had to do 15 years ago with Mobile NFC.

Who were your early users? What marketing channels, approaches, and marketing tools did you use to contact users? What worked and what didn't?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
That's another easy question once again, MasterCard provided all the users. They provided marketing. McDonald's restaurants, Burger King were the first ones to use our technology 15 years ago, 14 years ago, 13 years ago. Eventually, now Apple has adopted it. Google pay adopted it 10 years ago. So a lot of the companies started adopting this. So they were the ones that marketed, the use of this technology to their issuers. So they provided their issuers with another payment platform. In terms of MetaSepia, we'll go the same route, we'll use MasterCard and Visa to promote it to their issuers, which are financial institutions, and in turn, those just use existing client base. So our marketing, which was very high with the NFC company to promote the concept of what mobile NFC payments were. The concept wasn't even out there. Mobile payments didn't exist to convince people to use the phone to buy something that's very, very protocoled. Now, I'm just trying to convert the users of mobile NFC, and QR codes to using an optical payment method.

What changes would you attempt in customer targeting, acquisition process, and marketing tools in the later growth phase? Why?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
We should almost get that because once again we rely upon our institutional partner promote. They're trying to promote the use of mobile payments. So any technology they like, they will promote to all their banks, their institutions, they'll put commercials on TV. You've certainly seen mobile NFC payments commercials on TV a number of times. Our internal marketing and sales are really arched towards sales support, sales to merchants, merchant groups, for instance, spending a lot of time with a Walmart or a Payless or target to adopt the technology and buy a 1000 terminals at once. And in the end, we eventually sold, a little over one million terminals, in America, in Singapore and in parts of England, and we raised a little over $100 million. We had about 250 million in sales just from the terminals themselves. And then we had the rights for the mobile application itself so Google and others would adopt the use of the terminals that were producing and the rights for the mobile application. So once again, what changed over time was that more people adopted mobile payments and with Meta Sepia what's changed with time is that we're just starting to meet our investors in a week or so.

How'd you hire, incentivize, and track the progress of your sales and marketing team including agencies and part-time workers to scale user base?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Well, you know, as an entrepreneur, I always started the company as a CEO, and then after the seed of the series-A round funding, I would hire a professional at that point. In my case, it's always been a Stanford MBA because there are a lot of these people they're still living here that went to Stanford, which is very close. So my involvement with marketing was really that, hire the marketing people that I knew and let them go out and do this. So in terms of what you're asking the marketing functions, I'm a technology guy. So I'm all about physics, material science, computer science, the mobile device. I'm not really the marketing person, so I can't give you the specific information on how we did the tracking. The companies had 120 people, and there are a lot of divisions, and so I would hear them in the board meetings, but I wasn't that involved with the marketing aspect.

Who were your competitors when you started and how did the competition evolve? How did you create a competitive advantage and a unique selling proposition?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Okay, in terms of the mobile NFC, which links right into the optical company now. So I'm going to bridge, the two, in terms of global NFC, that was a vision quest. It sounds like you do something like this, with a shaman. But in fact, it was Sony that was developing the NFC chips, and we just thought to put them in the phone, which is a big deal, its a $100 million worth of a big deal. So we were really on a vision quest with MasterCard, they told us what they wanted to do. They gave us their clients, they gave us the opportunity, provided some funding. They provided a lot of resources, but basically we followed the leader here, and it was a very slow adoption process. In the end, the company became almost a unicorn. There were discussions to be acquired by Google and some others that were in discussion. But in the end, the amount of money that we raised dictated that we had to sell the company for a tremendous amount, but the growth rate didn't support a multi-billion dollar company at that point. We had sold a million terminals. We were generating a lot of revenue, but we're not a multibillion-dollar company in terms of financials. And once again, the slow adoption rate and the 10-year investment cycle of VCs, they draw from funds and have typically a 10 year life. They want to exit and pay the fund, pay the limited partners in that fund. So we're bumping up against the 10-year investment. We had a high valuation, but it wasn't high enough to give a tremendous return to all of the investors and the growth rate was just too slow for adoption at mobile NFC. A lot more people use it now than they used it even five years ago. But the adoption was too slow, so we ended up splitting the company in two, and one side, the hardware side being acquired by tech and others. And you could buy the internal state. You'll see them. You'll see them everywhere they look, I'm sure you've seen them, but they look similar to this terminal here, and then the provisioning and software aspects is held by Sequent Computer, a Public Company, so the acquisition was through two companies. We never made it past the billion-dollar valuation. We never got that. In terms of MetaSepia, our competition became mobile NFC and QR codes and QR codes are used internally, for instance, at movie theaters where you buy a ticket, you have a coded scan. There is some QR code usage at payments. Visa has one that they're just developing now, but you have to use a visa terminal with the visa payment. So they were our competition. By going to optical and creating a, using the existing common standard that anyone can use, we hope that many people will use our technology rather than developing applications for their technology, because if you multiply the number of card issuers, the number of brands, the number of private companies that have payments, there can be thousands of them. And they all need to have their own software put on every little terminal you interact with. And so hoping for is by using ubiquity, every phone has a display and a camera. Every phone could talk to every other phone with our technology. They literally talk from the camera to the display of the camera. We have no hardware limitations. We have no NFC limitations. We don't have the EMV limitation. All this becomes the competitive advantage that we offer.

What were the major exciting and memorable moments? Were there also any moments that almost got you to quit? How did you get past them?

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Well in the mobile NFC company, we never got that. It was really exciting. And it was just working right off. We started with infrared, using infrared trans payment protocols between the phone and the terminal. Then we switched to the NFC, so now we're going with radio waves rather than light waves. So it was an incremental step, but it was a profound step because nobody uses infrared for communications these days. That was like an interim technology with the old Palm pilots and things or so, barely remember the names, but by switching the NFC we greatly improved the performance. So a lot of it was incremental. So in terms of challenges, the challenge was really, making more terminals, getting more terminals distributed to merchants. It was a marketing function which I can't really address very well because I'm a technology guy. But it was more marketing. It was more, once again the champion of being massacred, PayPal's initiative partner. But through MasterCard, American Express became involved, a very strong partner. Others became very involved with this technology, and so it became very common, but it still took 10 years to become very common. So the challenges through the technology were straightforward. They were incremental. We knew how much money it would cost. In terms of feeling bad, I never felt bad. I never felt like things would fail or we were going to fall apart or something. We just kept growing and growing until we were about 120 people when I left the company five years, six years later, and it just kept growing. In terms of MetaSepia, there have been moments. I had a presentation with the executives of Samsung seven months ago when they didn't disclose that they were working on a new technology with Visa that would be introduced only a few months ago. So when I met with them, they had this new technology they were introducing, but they didn't want to disclose it to me. And so they just picked me apart in the meeting. They picked me apart on the presentation. They tore into the technologies, saying what's the use, and it was very discouraging. And when I left, I wondered first, why were they so negative? Because this is a company where I had provided due diligence on a company that was acquired by Samsung for $250 million, another payments company. So they knew me very well. But why were they being so negative? So that was an issue. So I felt bad after that meeting for a few days. But then when I started asking around, I started learning that they had a big in house project that would be announced in another five months and I was the wrench. I was the hammer that was being thrown in the machinery. I could be the saboteur, and so they really tried to discourage me from doing things. Maybe they're right in the end, maybe a Tap To Pay technology, which is where you have two phones, that tap each other that that provides the authentication that you are affecting the transaction. So you have to tap phones. In a pandemic environment, people don't want to be tapping their phones together. So a lot of people bring that up. A lot of people also say, with a $1000 phone, Do you really want to hit your phone against somebody else's? Especially when you're reaching. So, I was very discouraged. However, I continued on. I met one industry, a very prominent multinational company. And they just jumped aboard very quickly. They were the ones that sell this technology to others. So they are the ones who propagate the technology to European networks. And they said it was a good idea while Visa said it wasn't. And sure enough, several months later, Visa made their announcement and sang a song, made their announcement. Then we were vindicated. But yes, I felt very poorly for probably a month after that meeting. It was just the worst presentation I've ever had. Yes, in terms of feeling good, obviously, when you sign a term sheet and you have $10 million come to the company or 20 million or in some cases, a $30 million round, you feel great about that. It's party time. Take everyone out. This is great, bonuses. So the good times are basically when you're funded when you signed a major contract, and in the case of MetaSepiai is when we're able to actually demonstrate, and we can do this, okay, but we're refining some parts. But in another week when we demonstrate two phones being held this far apart, making it a very highly secure transaction with a standard protocol everybody can use, that will be big, that would be a big moment for us. The best moments will be just funding moments, and people may be acquiring the company that's always a good moment.

What responsibilities and decisions did you handle at work? What were the challenges? What strategies were effective in dealing with these challenges?

Based on experience at: CTO, founder, QSecure Inc
Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Okay, in terms of challenges, were working there, working with myself. I'm a tough guy on myself. I founded the company. I wasn't. I didn't have co-founders that I have in the other companies. It was all by myself, which is very difficult for my wife. So you have to keep that in mind. This is one of the three learning lessons we'll get into at the end of this discussion here. I started the company myself, and once again, I was like a tractor. I was highly focused, like a laser beam. Here's to go. We're going to make a demonstration of an electronic payment card, which I don't know if you can see it here. It has a little battery as a circuit, it has some sensors in it. So we built this card and we demonstrated how an electronic card can be placed inside of the terminal like this and we can make a transaction in the terminal. Once we did that, the VCs came around and said, How will we advance that? And the goal was to place a chip onto a little tiny film and make the chips out of silicon. Now, this is a very expensive turn on silicon but maybe a half a million dollars a turn. You have to go through five or six or 10 of them to get it right. So, in terms of the challenges, we're laser-focused. We knew what we had to do. We knew our goal. We had to make a demonstration which I was invited to present to an associate, a general to their CEO, which is an interesting conversation. He talked philosophy about being a farmer for an hour, and we never discussed the technology. So in meeting a CEO, sometimes it's very different than what you expect. That they're more tropical there, they're more, about, the strategic picture and how we make it play and how it fits in society. And NFC, of course, has been widely adopted. So the social change brought about my technology. That is apparent to everyone. That's very good for reputation, for meeting people. So that affords me to meet with these people. But in terms of the challenges, I would say the initial challenges were hiring the right team because there are so many people in Silicon Valley that are so qualified that you really have to depth them to find out if they're good people because this being Silicon Valley and under high stress, and if you've seen the Series Silicon Valley on TV, the Cablevision, which is really accurate, you have a lot of people that are dysfunctional, a lot of people that are geniuses and dysfunctional, and you have a lot of good people. So finding our team was a little bit difficult. Interestingly, on the side, my wife, I met while she was completing a Ph.D. at Stanford in Material Science. She and I eventually started a material science laboratory in Thailand, which was a very good experience as a multinational company, hiring people there versus here. So I would say for QSecure, was the weight of six weeks between each hardware cycle of development, where companies we consulted with had to build the technology and we would just wait for six weeks before we went for an analysis. All we could do at that point was work on software, work on server or have parties or something waiting for this. Then we would analyze the results over the next week or two, and then we would make another turn and wait six more weeks. That was difficult. In the end I had about after we were very successful of producing American Express cards with a little chip. You probably can't see it, but there's a small silicon bedded inside the car. Oh, and that comes from the way for that has thousands or many hundreds of chips. Our next goal was to move from silicon-based devices to Polymer to polymer devices, plastic devices, which are much cheaper to operate. So I hired a new CEO and companies, startups like to change CEOs every four years. You move into development, you move into marketing, there's sometimes a different executive that needs to be involved. And we hired a new one, and unfortunately, and I had started leaving the company at that point. Unfortunately, he decided that he would put the money into a not the polymer development, but into something else because the risk was too high. The partners that we had needed $10 million to modify and build special equipment to do the test to see if this would work. That was $10 million on top of $32 million we've already raised and that was a tough sell to the board and to him, said that we could reduce the price of the chip from $10 to $3 by going to plastic, and so he decided to move to a different technology, which is something else and is well known to not be successful. That was unfortunate. In the end, another company, Fitbit, acquired this technology for their payment devices for their watches. So the IP had more value than the potential of the company because we couldn't prove it was the last day. This is difficult when you're when you're doing a kaizen or when you're trying to do a development of the technology to lower the price.

How did the school prepare you for your career? Think about faculty, resources, alumni, exposure & networking. What were the best parts in each of your college programs?

Based on experience at: None, BS, MIS studies, University of San Francisco
Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
This isn't going to sound good. When I was in high school, I was concurrently involved with Stanford. So I was attending that high school, so I kind of moved past a lot of the curriculum I was picking when I was released in. So at Stanford, I was studying computer science and physics and I just moved very quickly in there. I made some small discoveries and contributions. My work at Bell Labs and, at several other groups, for people that like to excel when they're young, was a very good experience. And from there I was able to join Xerox Parc, as a research scientist there. That was very fortunate. Prior to Xerox Parc, I had worked at varying research too. So once again, it's the proximity of these companies within 10 miles of my home that I could work at that was extraordinary, and Xerox Parc only invites people to join them. At that point, you couldn't really apply. You were inducted, you were invited so that was a very, very good experience with me. Xerox Parc focused on entrepreneurship. There were a lot of spin-offs from, Sun Microsystems and Adobe, and so many companies came out of the park environment that it was very entrepreneurial. We worked with material scientists, computer scientists, geologists, psychologists, so many different people. And we would get together to understand how the technology could be adopted in society, and this was a great learning experience, far better than schools. So school really didn't have an impact on me except that I move past it very quickly, which isn't a good thing to say here because this is all about schooling. So I will say good things and that at Stanford I had really good mentors. I had really good people that did support me. At USF, I went there basically so I could understand and learn about system science very quickly. So I actually attended USF at a satellite campus, it was their Xerox Parc. So they paid from, back to school, to study in the graduates' courses for information science. Xerox was very much in the information science, of course, and that was one area that I was lacking them. So there the mentors were very good, and in fact, how they helped me was. They helped to create a business plan for my mold NFC company. The executive MBA program, where the higher executives to come and complete their MBA. So there were executives from Adobe, from Sun Microsystems, and other companies that were there, there are thesis, there graduate work every year, project is to create a business plan. And so we approached him and told him about our cool technology. They decided to submit it to see if any of the students with the former group to write a business plan for us. So, yes, the business plan for our mobile NFC company was written by graduate students in the, what was it? It was the USF executive MBA program that was lined with Stanford at that point. So it was very, very good for us. We did it with a very thick business plan with lots of color photos, and it was just really wonderful. It helped us in raising our funds because any business plan is better than no business plan, even if it changes dramatically, which you'll always do in a company.

What three life lessons have you learned over your career? Please discuss the stories behind these lessons, if possible. Stories could be yours or observed.

Summarized By: Jyotsana Gupta on Mon Sep 14 2020
Okay. Three life lessons are, you need strong partnerships. You need a strong partnership in your marriage because there's gonna be tremendous emotional ups and downs, financial support, all sorts of support come from your wife. You need to have a strong partnership. You need partnerships with industry executives that you're working in, In my case, these are massacre, PayPal or others These are very important for providing guidance and providing, and end goal, which is an acquisition in my case, my preference. Let's see, the second one is for me. This is my personalized. It doesn't apply to everyone is to take a great risk. My life has always been about great risk. I'm a very high time school diver. 3000 hours in the water. I fly helicopters recreationally. I've been teaching as an FA recreationally as a helicopter flying instructor. I'm a sailor, a yachtsman. I have boats I sail on the Pacific Cup races to Hawaii and back which is 3-4 weeks at sea to survive. So I'm a high-risk nature person. Um, whether I'm born that way or not, I'm not sure, but that's in my nature. So for me, taking a high risk. TS. Eliot stated only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far we can go. Many people will follow the risk that's prescribed to them by the work environment. I'm intrinsically motivated beyond that. And there are VCs and investors that want to be aligned with high-risk people. If you have a 3% chance of success, but the success can be overwhelming, they will get involved. So it's a small niche, and you will attract these people. In terms of the risk. I also navigate three dimensions of space. A lot of people don't do this. You drive a car around, or maybe you get an airplane. But if you're a scuba diver, your pilot, and you are doing flights, you learn that your envelope of Operation Shifts to 3-D space, your X, Y, and Z, you think differently than people who are always thinking two-dimensional driving. Walking, Bicycling, it's a different mindset, So I believe the mindset changes the neural plasticity of the brain and allows you to see things maybe a little bit differently. The third serendipity and the luck that you have that you bring upon yourself serendipity and luck are more easily obtained in Silicon Valley or in areas where there are a lot of, in my case, computer science, and mobile development company. Just the sheer numbers of people that you meet in the store. The conversations you will be hearing in cafeterias, are very much aligned with what you're doing. You gain insight from other people that you bump into, so serendipity is very, very important in this. The last aspect of serendipity is Peter Thiel and some of his beliefs on genetic fate versus environmental fate, intrinsic versus extrinsic forces, intrinsic versus extrinsic, and urinate versus learned experiences so people can read more about that to understand how they may fit in. But if you find something that fits for you and you can align yourself with it and adopt it, then it could provide strength and support to your own goal of being successful. There's a lot. Let me tell you my broken a lot of bones doing what I already do. Let me tell you, a lot of people that are fearful, they look at the damage I've had breaking my bones and they don't want to go in that direction. But you know, there's always an investor. There are always people who are attracted to this, too. So you will find these people and you will succeed with them. And you will think very far, like making a payment with your phone or doing something. That's what's considered strange. It's becoming normal now.

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Karan Bhatia on Mon Sep 14 2020
Well, once again and the presidents of Silicon Valley here I meet a lot of people that transition to the Bay Area. A lot of people from other countries. My first company, once again, at WIBO-tech mobile NFC were two Pakistanis two Portuguese people and one American, myself. So the drive that these people have, these people meaning foreigners that are coming into the technology space in Silicon Valley to succeed often overwhelms even the local people that are here that aren't, that don't have that high drive. They aren't seeking that, the goal that people in other countries may appreciate more than those that are gonna be here. So in terms of internships, in the valley here, most people end up living in homes with five or six or seven others. They take non paying jobs or very low paying jobs just to be in a company to learn how the company operates, to find out how they could be hired. H1V visas are very important here. I've hired a lot of people in the past on H1V visas. Now they're kind of under stress because of our president, but they are very important to the industry. So in terms of internships, knock on any door in the valley here that's aligned with your interest. If you're interested in mobile transactions, your mobile communications mobile, whatever. There are a lot of companies here, so if you're living in another country, maybe in Bulgaria or even parts of England, it may be difficult to find these companies, but here there's just so many it is a forest. So the only advice I can have is just knock on the door and start anywhere in any field that has an interest to you. Computer device is easy and then find out what application. The good thing about being in Silicon Valley is that a lot of companies are taking a very socially conscious perspective, which a lot in the world don't do. And this is simply because there are so many people here to work that companies have to be able to compete with each other. And so, rather than offering just a good salary and a great cafeteria, and now they have to offer socially responsible work, such as not using your technology for facial recognition of American citizens or not using your technology that could be used in wars for killing other people, so becoming more socially conscious now. This is very good for for employees and for the companies.