TAB Bank VP of Marketing
University of Utah Masters of Business Administration, Entrepreneurship/Entrepreneurial Studies
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How did you get to where you are today? What is your story? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
It's a good question. So my story is kind of unconventional. My original plan was actually to go to medical school, and so I was. And so I actually got accepted to medical school and before I CE before I actually started. Um, school. I ended up having a lunch. What? The friend of mine who was already in medical school, and we just have, ah, casual conversation and one of the things you threw out there. He didn't mean it to change my life, but it did change my life. He asked me where What are the things that I studied or what were the things I right about? When I didn't have to read anything? Andi got me thinking like none of it had to do with medicine ever like. I only studied medicine because they had to, um and, you know, kind of being from a Korean household by, you know, kind of the Asian. There's some pressure, you know, really, to become like a doctor, a lawyer like that's That's what you become. And sorry, that's what I was always going to be. And so at that point I decided to switch. I didn't know what I what I wanted to do. Uppers. And so, um, I dabbled with a lot of different things, a lot of different areas for the person in my career, really trying to explore what, what it was that I wanted to dio. And during my MBA program, I ended up taking a class on entrepreneurship class, and I have found my passion there. And the passion was in the creation of new things, right? And so, whether it's creating new project, whether it's creating a new marketing campaign or a new business, that's really where, like, my passions kind of came alive. And so I ended up starting my own business, and, uh, weirdly enough ice. I actually was a fulltime blogger for about five years on. And so that's how I got into the marketing round, was being a blogger. Then I went to a local news station to be their social media director. I've got recruited Thio, be a director of digital marketing for an ad agency here in Utah and then, lastly, uh, with my car position, ended up becoming the VP of marketing over at Topic. So in a nutshell, that's kind of my story, all right,

What are the responsibilities and decisions that you handle at work? Discuss weekly hours you spend in the office, for work travel, and working from home.

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
s so I my scope is everything that deals with marketing, right? So all of the decision makings of, um, you know, any go to market strategies and on trying to understand the various products that we sell Understanding. Really? When you boil it down to it, you know, there's four kind of key areas. Now you have your products, you have your channels, you have your model. And, um, he had a market and really is trying to find alignment across all of them. And, you know, everybody talks about product product market fit, but you know, you have product product, channel fits and all of that stuff. So really, Michael is from a day to day thing is like, How do we figure that out, Right. How do we figure out the channels that will help us get to the right people at the right time, on influence, people in the right way? And so originally, that's kind of the day to day on dhe. One of the things I really wanted to do is when I first started at my current position, marketing was basically a fulfillment center. And so the team like executive, he would just say, Hey, marketing, do this And we did that. We weren't really We weren't really an integral part of the overall strategy. And so when I when I came there, that was actually one of our big push is to go beyond marketing and to have a seat at the table being able to help guide the overall direction of the bank has a hole on DSO. When you include that scope, our school actually becomes wider than just barking in general. And so we're you know, we're working and strategically aligning ourselves with the product came with customer service, like basically that the whole customer drink. I'm from starting tan on so that we can help influence and have those conversations as to how best to align the overall business calls with him where singles. But, um, you know, in terms of weekly hours, you know, I it really just fluctuate. So some weeks, our goods, I'm kind of your traditional 40 hour weeks sum up some weeks, I'm working 60 70 hours a week. It just really depends on kind of workload and travels kind of similar. Typically right now, during conference season, um, we we usually travel quite a bit. And so we're going to Between me and my team were traveling quite a bit, but, you know, February, March, April. We're probably traveling about maybe 25% of the time. But outside of that, we actually don't have too much travel. And so which I like. I don't actually like to travel too much, so yeah, it's actually my my position at tapping actually is a really good work. Life balance. And so, like, today I'm moving right on. So I'm actually, and so I'm just at the house and able to do other things. But what ends up happening is like later tonight I got stuff to do. I work, and so I'll do it. I'll do that. So it's really good. Nice work, life balance.

What tools (software programs, frameworks, models, algorithms, languages) do you use at work? Do you prefer certain tools more than the others? Why?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
our our marketing tech stock is just crazy. Like we have so many software on, uh that we utilized in our text back on. But I mean, when you're home boiling it down, really, for me, it's primarily we use those tools for analytical purposes and trying to understand basically what's happening with our customers. Like, what is their interaction with us? What is their experiences and looking at the data to help us tell the story that we don't understand, um, and help us automate and, um, make making sure that thing so fall through the cracks. And so from that standpoint, I think one, my probably my favorite tool right now is marcato just because we actually use it for a variety of things, not just email working, but we use it for our whole a BM strategy, which is account based marketing. It allows us to do lead scoring very well. But whenever we're looking at any software or tool, what we're really trying to find this, how easy can we gain information that it's supposed to be coming us and in an efficient manner so that we are doing more than just observing on that we're actually pulling insights from the data on. And you know, it's been my experience, almost software's small software tools that we that are out there. They're all pulling from the same data sources. They just present it differently. And so when you're looking at those tools, basically it's like, How can we get the information that's there, put it in an observable format and then pull insides from there? So, um, yeah, if I were to pick one, I'd say we're well, we use all the time. I'm especially integrating it with cells worse.

What things do you like about your job? Were there any pleasant surprises?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Um, I think the thing that I love most about my job is like I said, Kind of work life balance is it's really key, which I love but the autonomy to do and solve Harry problems. I actually love that. And for a lot of people, they get frustrated and it's, you know, they want clarity. They just tell me what to do and I'll do it, you know? But when they were doing with ambiguous situations or problems, I don't have a clear set. Um, answer my bay. They run into challenges and it can be kind of frustrating. But for me, I actually love that. And I love the fact of the bank on our being president and executive team. A swell is aboard there, just like, Hey, here's a Harry problem. Help us solve it like we don't care how you help us solve itself to solve this problem. And so the autonomy to be able to fix on and actually allocate resources to be able because that's the biggest challenge. A lot of times people can see the problem, but they don't have the power or the authority to really actually okay resources to be able to fix those problems on, so the autonomy to be able to fix Harry problems on and then also, like I said, the work life balance. I think it's been great.

What are the job titles of people you routinely work with inside and outside of your organization? What approaches do you find to be effective in working with them?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yes. So I mean, I work across, you know, the whole spectrum of the bank, from entry level workers to the second thing. But primarily I would say my most. My interactions are kind of my peers and the executive team. And so these are all of this You levels, you know, our President Seo's our CFO CEOs. So the sea sweets, but then all of the others, senior VPs and BP is in the bank I worked with on time on a routine basis. And so when you're interacting with them and approaches, that really work for me is really listening. Um, and it sounds like it's common sense. Everybody gets a like you need to listen, but like people rarely actually listen, Um and they're not like being very observant of everything that's going on, right? And so is your communicating as you're talking, you know, you them unique observing, you know, their body language, whatever. Like, what hands are they, You know, maybe they speak, everything's fine, but clearly everything's not fine. And so, like, you know, there's other underlying problems. And as you demonstrate and show that you're actually paying attention even to something like simple details like their kids things you know in their life, you know? Hey. Yeah, You know, it's kind of crazy. My my daughter has a birthday coming up in next week or next Tuesday. It's crazy, but then you come in and you give, you know, their daughter of birthday president to see that I hold the count. He was paying attention. He was listening. People in minute detail that didn't really actually, um, it didn't really matter to the job duties. And so really, when it comes down to it, it's just like showing that you care about not only the word, but you care about them on, and then don't reciprocate that right, they'll listen to you right? And that you create a connection with them that way. Oh, yeah, that's awesome. Like, I love working with John because he cares any base attention. So I'm I'm going to care. No one ever said about that same level of respect

What major challenges do you face in your job and how do you handle them? Can you discuss a few accomplishments?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah. So right now, like our biggest challenge that we're facing right is trying to find this product channel alignment. And so we have various products that we are working with from a marketing standpoint. Um, but for the long time before I got there, we were just kind of throwing money out stuff, right? We're just like, let's just do digital marketing. Let's just do traditional like, whatever. We're just throwing things out there. But what we're trying to do is like, I need to create lovers, right and create the product channel alignment so that we can actually forecast so that we can actually understand what the costs are gonna be involved when we want to uphold certain lovers. And so one of the first wins that we have was our deposit side, and we had a goal of trying to raise on. We were new into the consumer market. And so our goal was to raise $60 million in the 1st 5 years on and this year. One sided last year and s So I came in last year last June. What kind of the goal? It's okay. We want to raise $60 million in the 1st 5 years. You know, by the end of December of last year, we had raised $220 million in the 1st 6 months on DSO. One of the reasons that we were able to have that success is, um, we have a learning frameworks that that, you know, I am a big, um you know, it kind of comes from playing Kristiansen, but it's this assumption checklist and and it's really we have a base, a lot of assumptions that we make. And we just need to test him as quickly as possible so that we learn and understand those alignments. And that's kind of what we were able to do. And now, um, now we have more than enough deposits. And so we had a kind of cut path because we were kind of solved that problem. But now, if we needed to raise more money or get more deposits, we understand that we created that product General alignment. Now we can pull that lever, and then we have an accurate forecasts of how much that's gonna cost on and what we need, what we needed spend in order to raise the money that we're looking for on Dhe. Similarly, that's what we're trying to do now with our loan side. Can we pull? And right now, we don't know. That's a problem we're still trying to solve, but you know, we'll get there, so

What qualities does your team look for while hiring? What kind of questions does your team typically ask from candidates?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah, So the at least from our sample, like our biggest thing when we look at hiring new candidates is obviously like if we're bringing you in for an interview, you already have the skills like we could see from your resume. We can see from your background. Do you have the skills to be able the hearts goes to be able to do the job, and we're asking you to do. But the issue that I find when we're trying to find the right fit as people who are just all in right, like you are brought in who wants you to be part of this awesome, amazing team and who are kind of self starters on DSO to question, You know, two things that we have to try to find out with an interview is Are they all in right? Well, they just dive into it, be pro pro active, and, you know, so that I don't have to tell them, right, Like, I don't want to hire someone where I have to tell them exactly what to do. You know, I want to hire people who are smart, and then it's like, Hey, here's a problem. Help to solve it. Right? Um And then the other thing is, how do they deal with ambiguity? Um, it's actually one of my big thing that I've been working forever and like human beings like we don't do well with, have a unity when we don't really understand exactly what how do we afford? We actually have a tendency to revert back into our old habits and Carol practices. And so it's like when you are faced with, like, not knowing what you do. Do you know how to move forward in that situation? Because we're constantly like Like I said, like, just a few minutes ago. We're talking about our bone products and that product product, channel alignment. We don't know what that looks like, and we don't know how to solve it yet. And so now we're in that situation. How do you afford through and push through those challenges? And one of the things that I, uh, I'd like to ask on this is actually hold from other people, but I think it gives me a way of looking into how they felt. Process is like, what are you know? Is there something in your life you believe in that That lesson 10. 10 other people in the world believing right. So basically something that, like you believe in that literally know what else believes, right. Um and you know, and oftentimes they'll do something, like some kind of random, like political question or something like metaphorical, but on then we kind of push push back a little bit because even it's like, yeah, like I believe in UFO's. Well, you're not alone. There's, like a lot of people, more than 10 people that believe in you. You're right. Like we need, like, very specific. Like something that basically no one else in the world leaves. And ultimately, when we when we asked that question and drill down into it, it basically gets down to them. Right? Mike? What? What do you believe in yourself that no one else believes in yet? Right? And their answers to that, like how they think through that, often tell us a lot of really where they are personally and like how they handle where they see themselves in the future. So

What is a typical hiring process for a job like yours? What are the titles of people who interview? What questions usually get asked and how to handle them?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
so usually if you're if you're applying for a VP position, especially at a bank, you're either being. You're either being interviewed by a senior V. P. O. R, another sea level executive, right? Like at a B B level, you're dealing with the executive team. Whoever's hiring you simply part of that team. Um and so those are the ones we're gonna be interviewing on the questions that they're really wanting to ask, right? Like Bill asked all kinds of questions like Tell us about some of your success is a lot of generic questions like Tell us about a time where you're able you are able to overcome something challenging. But really, what they're looking for is someone that could help them solve their problems. Um, and the I mean, the one thing that really helped me land might like the job that I heard we have is, you know, I knew that they were looking for someone who was proactive, and so I actually like with my interview. During the interview process, I was interviewing with the senior V p of over marketing and sales, and when I was interviewing with him, he was like like what? are some of the, you know, tell me about some of the challenges that you face that you haven't solved, right? Or told me some about your challenges. And what I actually did was I just I have done I Before the interview, I did a ton of research about cab bank and what their issues were. And so I actually came. I came to him with a playbook and saying, These are the challenges. I see what's happening and these are some of the solutions I like. I presented him with solutions. Now some of them were off off base because I lacked context. But the mere fact that I gave him, like solutions to the problems he's facing right now was like a really big deal for him. And then he was like, done like, we're gonna hire you like if you're already doing it through the interview process, what's gonna happen when we actually give you context? Help us solve issues? And so however you can really show that, like, you're just gonna solve problems, right, like and people are gonna be able to trust you. And what's gonna happen is that's especially when you're in a VP director level position, like most people actually don't have a seat at the table when it comes to the overall business decisions like they have inputs but really don't kind direction. But when you can prove to the executive team and other products the other product owners that you can fix their Harry problems like like for us, even if it's on a marketing issue, you come to us with a customer service issue or an I T issue. We can help you solve that problem that all of a sudden you become a strategic resource set like the rest of the team you know does, too. And so during the interview process, you really want to demonstrate that you can be that kind of resource, not only for the department before the business as a whole

What is a future career path for professionals like you? How long does it typically take to advance through various roles? How easy are such promotions to come by?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
It's really good question. They it really is all over the map. Right? Um and it really depends on how ambitious and how proactive you are in getting to what you want to get you. So I have people who it literally took him 15 20 years to become a BP in the bank. Right? But then you have someone like me like I literally did a career pin it right just five years ago. So and, you know, and, uh, 2015 is when you know 2015 Honest, You're in cardiovascular genetic research on dhe. Now I'm doing a BP. I'm working at a bank on DSO. But the reason why I was able to get promoted so quietly is because I I demonstrated that You know what? I don't even know how to handle this problem. I don't have experience in that, but I know how to learn. I know have solved problems, and we're gonna solve problems and and really my being proactive in the challenges that were given to me. It's like, you know what? We're just going to start solving problems. And even if you don't have a problem that was presented, we would find other ways to grow on by Duke. By doing that, you really you stand out a lot. And so if you're really proactive in your career, if you're proactive and solving other people's problems, like you can grow and get promoted very quickly on. And if you have a background that you can show right. And that's what I was able to dio over at epic marketing because their biggest question is I didn't have a finance background. And so they're like should be higher VP of marketing, who's has no banking experience, and I shop. I'd show them when I was effort marketing. It's like what? When we worked with this client who is a gym? I never had Jim extremes when I was working with this with this planet who was an education. It was a college never had college experience in that realm. But I showed them even though I didn't have experiences in those areas, I was able to get wins. And success is because of the way that we go about tackling problems and so yeah, too. If you're going from entry level to like a VP level, you're gonna You're looking at a murder from 5 to 20 years, right? Like some, some people just go with the flow and just allow they don't direct their career path. And so it takes a long time to get there. Um, and others. And I said mine was five years like, but I know people who are VPs of their product the various product, um, markets and, uh, happenings. And they were able to do it in two, right? Like they were able to really just showing demonstrates. I listen, I could solve all these problems for you, so

What are different entry-level jobs and subsequent job pathways that can lead students to a position such as yours?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah, So there's a lot of career paths. I mean, a lot of entry level positions. You can kind of come through when you're coming into the marking room. But typically, you're looking out kind of like a social media specialist or a digital marketing specialist who's doing some kind of basic, um, you know, just doing some basic, um, stuff with in terms of that, um, you know, answer answering questions, answering, you know, posting on social media. That's kind of like your typical entry level position. But then, as you start to do some more advanced level content creation on dhe strategies, and then you're going into paid marketing, paid digital marketing like you start to get into it out. And that's the menu and UPS. Once you start fulfilling on some of these events level positions, then you start managing people, and then as you start to manage people, then you start to grow into, um, you know, managers, directors, three peas, all that just

What were the responsibilities and decisions that you handled at work? What major challenges did you face in your job?

Based on experience at: Director of Digital Marketing, Epic Marketing
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
my responsibilities over there was specifically I was director of digital marketing. And so they over over there what I was doing, it was I was in charge of all of our pay channels, all of our CEO on we had an S e o manager. I had a PPC manager on DSO basically anything that had to deal with digital marketing. It was kind of what we did with. And so as we're working with various planes and helping them solve their digital marketing needs, um, yeah, we would, you know, I was in charge of making sure that our strategies were sound everything was good and that we were, um, you know, providing the best in the highest quality, um, results that had to do anything with vigilante in general.

How did the school prepare you for your career? Think about faculty, resources, alumni, exposure & networking. What were the best parts?

Based on experience at: Masters of Business Administration, Entrepreneurship/Entrepreneurial Studies, University of Utah
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
So, um, with my MBA, you know, I would say by far the the thing that helped me more than anything, Waas, um during my m b A. I actually took my favorite class My class. I actually kind of stripped of my mindset, but it's not gonna help me find my passion and actually help me think through how to problems off. And so the way that I was able to well, less than it was teaching us was when you're dealing with the creative process, you just have a ton of ambiguity. How do you deal with that? And be ambiguity, right? And so how do you get through, learn and d risk? Um, um, your knowledge so that you're able to better understand how that's all the issues that you're facing. And so, um, I actually had ah professionally and Rob Webber her and he really did, like, transformed the way that I solve problems by thinking and giving up, giving me a framework by which to deal with ambiguous situations and just say creative process in general.

How did the school prepare you for your career? Think about faculty, resources, alumni, exposure & networking. What were the best parts?

Based on experience at: Bachelor of Arts, Biology, University of Utah
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah, So you know my bachelors. Like I said, I was originally going to medical school, so I actually got my undergrad and biology. And so, in terms of actual specific things that I learned, I you know, there's not a ton of application to what I currently do, but what What I learned the most on my underground was like it was really hard, like, it was really hard. And there was a lot of, uh, you know, especially as you're getting ready for medical school. But you have a lot of extra curricular tze you're trying to do. You're trying to do research. You're trying to do service projects and everything in addition to doing well in school. And so what it allowed me to do is like, just really create a really good workout at work ethic to be able to learn and know how did howto handle hard and challenging problems so

Would you like to share something that is not on your resume? This may include your passions, facing setbacks or adversities, a unique experience, or an unexpected help.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah, so for me, Like like I said, like my my big soap box. And I'm I I constantly go on and I've mentioned a few times in this, uh, in this format, but it really is, um, you know, a persevering And then also just how to deal with what did you when you don't know what to do right on. And you know, through whenever you like, have the vast majority of people like when they're when they're facing that situation. Like I said, they have a tendency to revert back to their old habits. College students, like, you know, they think that they're prepared, and then they go into the real world and they're going for their jobs and then, like, it gets challenging. And they don't have someone that telling them exactly what to do. They're like, Hey, this is what we need to solve. Solve it like they don't know. They don't have a step by step directions on how to do that. And so then what band of doing is in the end of reverting way back and it like, before all of the skills and everything that they learned in school, actually forget all about it. And and it's funny because, you know, I've hired some of my former students a CZ, I've, you know, as an adjunct professor, um, I've hired some of my former students, and I see it in them, and they're facing a challenge, and they don't know exactly what to do. So then they revert back to all of their old bad habits and like, What are you doing? And I asked him, I was like, You know how to do this. Just think through your training. Think about your linings, right? Like think about the experiences you have. Just take a step by. Step on, really. Just focus on one answering one question, and as you can answer that question, then you apply to the next, and then you create this rapid experimentation on Dhe. That's what we do, like, That's what way do apparently a tab. And that's what we did at marketing. And that's what I try to teach my students. How do you create this rapid experimentation? It oration, right? I'm to learn. Learn quickly on dhe. That's how you really get through some of your more ambiguous situations that are more problematic and challenging themselves

Do you have any parting advice for students hoping to get to a position such as yours? What 3 dos and 3 don'ts would you suggest?

Based on experience at: VP of Marketing, TAB Bank
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Mar 11 2020
Yeah. So good questions. So one just be wildly proactive, right? Like, don't wait for other people to tell you what to do. Like if you're waiting for other people to tell you what you do, you're essentially heading your career. Your career is now based on someone else's, um, uh, priorities, right? Like you're handing off your career and you're putting it in the hands of someone else, like own your career owned that career path. And the way that you do that is just be proactive when look around for challenges and problems that need to be solved. Even if you've done everything that's on your job duties or your responsibility for that day, then look around. It's like All right, well, what other things tonight challenge myself? What other things can I face? Toe work with? Three. Other thing that I would say to do. It's also just learn, right? Just read when, when you're home. If you're only reading and working and doing things from 9 to 5 or only at school, you're learning. Curve will not only be Steve, it will be long. It'll be a long learning curve. And so what would you need to do is just And this is why your passion matters. Because if if you're doing something that you're passionate about, your naturally just kind of absorb and learn and you're just like, Hey, I just want to learn more about this stuff until you're reading articles you're doing Webinars, you're attending conferences you're reading. Um, you know, you're watching YouTube videos, you know, and it gives you a title contexts and understanding of how to do your job better and how other people in that space are doing that on DSO learning. It's just learning and learning a time. Um, like you're just have to learn outside of your normal work hours for normal school hours. Things not to do. Um, this is kind of the opposite of what I just said to you, but don't just wait on other people like don't give, don't put your career and other people's hands. I'm like on your career onda way that people do. This is they really do just say, Hey, boss, tell me what to do. And when I when I when I have done everything that you told me to do, I just kind of show on dhe I relaxed when I just do my own thing. But, you know, you don't, you know, don't not like again just being proactive, right? This is kind of the opposite. Andi. Other thing is, um, don't non network. Right? So this is like a like a double negative of just saying to Network networking is wildly important and is key for success. You know, people talk about hard work. Well, there's people that work hard that aren't successful right on. But you know, you need to be intelligent and smart. Well, there's a ton of intelligent people who are not successful. There are a lot of dumb people who are wildly successful. I'm about one thing that most successful people have is they have a large, robust network. And the reason why networking is so important is because you your network literally defines your effective intelligence meeting that, like, you know, there's an old saying that says it's not who you know. It's It's not what you know. It's who you know. But the little place that I have on that saying is who you know is what you know. So if I'm limited thio on Lee, what I'm able to do than what I'm actually able to do is actually very limited. But if I am a network that, you know, like I can't develop software But I know a guy that can develop that software program or I know someone that you know, I can help connect me like an HR person that can help me connect with an amazing talent, whatever. Like now, all of a sudden, what I can actually do becomes multiplied by what my network is able to dio. And so when you create strong networks, you creates strong network of hats, so