Veem Director of Revenue Operations
Western Governors University Master of Business Administration - MBA
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How did you get to where you are today? What is your story? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
So I have always been very driven, Um, and academically oriented person. So I have loved to work hard toe, learn more and not definitely flowed, you know, into education and into my career. Afterwards, I'm always someone trying to find the fastest, best way to do things. Efficiency is always in the back of my mind. Um, and it translated really well when I went to school, eso I went to Utah State in Logan, Utah, for business admin and tourism marketing. I had initially thought that was what I wanted to Dio. And so I was there for a few years and started off with a fellowship at the Governor's Office of Economic Development in Utah. In their tourism department. So they have a film and tourism, uh, department, where you work on all of the commercials that air shot on the salt flats, things like that on. It was it was a fascinating program. So I was there the summer before I graduated. Then the program was going to be ended by the time I did graduate. So I had to look for something different. Um, and then ultimately a recruiter had come to our school looking for people for their internship program at Goldman Sachs. And I attended session anyways, even though I was about to graduate and went and asked them at the end, you know, could they direct me to a full time role in how to apply the fact and got that role? Um, it was a grueling interview process, but got there and then went into banking and never actually ended up going back to that tourism marketing focus that I thought I was gonna have eso there. I was in operations for two years. Um, and it was kind of one of those places where, uh, people call it a two year extension degree. Uh, because you're there to get experience and have it on your resume and after a bit, you either have done your time and you leave or you stick it out and that kind of shape your career and you usually stay in banking. So after two years, I had known very well that it wasn't what was for me. It's very corporate. There are a lot of layers and red tape, especially in the industry it sent not only because of its size, and that could be frustrating for someone like me who wants to make things more efficient. And that just is not possible in that kind of organization, at least without great amount of effort. In time, eso I had advent to some friends about some frustration. Um, and they had actually said that our old sorority advisor from when we were in college, I worked at a charter company. Now that was looking for someone to come into a brand new role that they were thinking of of basically operations for a finance team that they had there. So interviewed, went there on and ended up being there for a few years. It was a company called pack Size. And what ended up sealing the deal there was that I had enough financial background to speak to finance, um, but wasn't necessarily to in the details and that I had done a lot of working contracts. Eso I did a lot of red lining in contract negotiation, um, things there. So, uh, after a bit, I ended up moving under a new VP of sales and became his dedicated chief of staff and did everything for the sales team. Um, from on boarding Thio commissions, Um, handling all the systems that the sales team used. It was really a jack of all trades position. Um, and I wanted to become self sufficient. I wanted to know exactly what we could do within our CRM. And so we ended up negotiating that half of my head can't go towards the I t. Team while I was there, um, which led to me becoming the Salesforce admin and getting a little bit more technical there. It was hugely beneficial to speak to the full term of, you know, we have this idea. This is what's possible and that I could even execute on it all within my bandwidth. Um was there for a few years and then had a really exciting opportunity to go to a fresh start up and start their sales operations team from scratch, which would have been something new for me. So it's exciting. I went there, and sometimes with the startup world, you get on a rocket ship that's about to take off, and sometimes you get on, you know, rape before it's about to crash. And unfortunately, that was what happened. Uh, it's only there for a few months and then company started really showing signs going downhill and myself. Other senior leadership left, and within a couple months from that, the company ceased to exist. Eso After that, I went to a new company called Space like you on and did all of their salesforce, admin and red box. It was an amazing SAS company, a little bit fresher, but not quite in their startup stage. That grown past that. And we went through a series of acquisitions, acquisitions, air insane because you're working for the same company one day and in the same company the next, except for everything's changed. Um, so our first acquisition was by we work, and it was about a week before things started to take a dive there. And then our second acquisition was by a company called Archivist Sarah View. So I was lucky enough to come over and bigger and better roles in each each transition. But it definitely changed Thekla pany culture, uh, at the last acquisition we required by a competitors who had been around 40 something years and you know, they really had a lot of baggage that they were coming with where I was coming from the start up world, where if you see a better way to do things, it's run fast, fail fast and fix it fast. And that was not what you even had the ability to do there just because it was fragile. It was It was old. So look for something else and ended up calling one of my old bosses the founder of said company that was acquired, uh, for a referral for a different program. And he's like, Oh, we're looking for somebody to run rev ops here. So that was actually just about a month and a half ago, and now I'm at a company called VM, running their rev ops and figuring out how we're going to do things there.

What is the elevator pitch of your startup? What problem does it solve? How were your customers solving their pain point before your startup?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
sure. So I will have a shorter answer since, like I said, I've only been there a little bit over a month. But VM is a global payments platform for domestic and foreign exchange for mid level businesses. So they provide speed visibility Andi access that traditionally companies of that size can't have. You know, bigger companies have a lot of leverage to negotiate rates. Um, smaller companies usually aren't doing that kind of that kind of transaction. And sodium can come in, um provide ah, partnership, really? And show a really secure ah transaction process to handle all of their FX needs. Whether that's paying a supplier or paying their contractors, Isure. So before then there are There are a lot of people that honest there in this space, as Faras transferred money from place to place from a personal, uh, level right, you have Venmo. You have Apple pay PayPal. If you use Chase Bank, you have Zell. So there are options for the personal for the business. There's even more options, right? There's more sophisticated companies where you could negotiate FX rate locks. You know, if your if you're changing money between currencies, it can. It can almost become a fancy form of gambling. Um, and then for the mid level, there's there's still names there that you recognize. There's competitors like Transferwise. Big One would be Western Union, and anybody that's used that knows that it may not be the most user friendly process, but it definitely gets the job done. Um, so people were still able to transfer their money before using Wien, And we aren't a SAS company. We don't have contracts. They cannot bring some of their business to us. None of their business. To us. It is up to them. Um, so what we're able to offer is like I said, depending on the currency and much faster solution. A cheaper solution, um, and also provides visibility. If you think about when you order something on Amazon, you can get down Thio. That truck is eight stops away from your house and in banking. You can't do that. You send money and you hear Oh, in 3 to 5 days, they'll get it. And you don't really know anything past. That theme is able to offer a point by point tracking. So you know exactly where your money is that you know exactly where money that's being sent to you is that, um and it's much more visible process.

What responsibilities and decisions does one handle in a job like yours? What are the top three priorities? What are weekly work hours like?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
sure. Ah, lot of things. Um, so essentially revenue operations is responsible for having a bird's idea of the company. If you are the head of marketing, you know marketing so well. If you're head of product, right, you need to know the product inside and out. And there are things that fall in between those silos that somebody needs to catch. And quite often that equals re pops because you need to make sure that the company is operating smoothly and efficiently between departments with the end goal of more sustainable, more predictable revenue. That's always going to be the end goal of revenue operations. It's which should make sense, right? Um, but that can look like a lot of things. An example that I thought of was, Let's say your sales person and you're talking to a customer and they express a feature that will be a deal breaker for them continuing business with you. Let's say a page needs to be read for a good example sake. Um, sales. Tell us Product. Hey, we need this page to be read product that needs to go back and forth asking, Is that the best use of our time? our money. All such things, um and then let's say they decided is and they develop it. So robots have already stepped in to maybe create a process where there's a better feedback loop. All that information is usually already in a CRM like Salesforce. Um, you could set up notifications all those things where you don't need to have this back and forth between teams where there's quite usually friction. Um, okay, so let's say product creates this feature. Then it's rev ops job to make sure that marketing knows they need to be creating collateral for that feature that marketing collateral gets to sales sales has a wayto log. If some, if they're within a sales opportunity, they're selling it that they can log that in a CRM, Um, if they sell it, that they have the contracts that they need. Thio. Does that change anything about the compensation structure? Do we need to figure out unique rules for somebody says that, Does that change their quotas? And last of all, you need to make sure that your collecting the right type of data at the end, you could say, Was that worth it or not? Was it a waste of money. Was that a great thing? And we should do more like it. Um, and all of those little pieces end up being owned by revenue operations. Just a complete the picture. And ultimately, when you see a problem, you see how far the dominoes fall and know what to do about it.sure my priorities quite honestly shift every day on I can go into that in a bit. But like I said, you have a bird's eye view. So in sales, it's easy to articulate these air top three priorities and express that you need help in them. But maybe compared thio the company's strategy and everything that marketing is asking for. Maybe those are those, Uh, those priorities just became number 45 and six for you, and they aren't even on your list. Um, so the priority is always to make sure that you are not inhibiting revenue and that you're increasing it, um, that you're, you know, helping teams communicate better, uh, and that you're making something scalable so often. There's scalable and sustainable because so often you're building things and just to go, go go away, especially in the start up world. And that's awesome. That's what you need to dio Teoh. You know, when the land race and get where you need to be, except for if you aren't spending the time to build things correctly the first time because it takes let's just use simple math and say it takes 150% of the time to build it right at the beginning instead of just go, go, go. People often don't want to spend that time so they can go, uh, and that ends up creating a mess to clean up later. And so building process is the right way, and investing that time up front is always a priority. That's in the background of everything. Um, robots should be doing as far as ours. Um, I mhm don't live toe work. Eso I keep my hours very manageable. For me, it is a project based role, and so that means some nights along some nights are easier. Uh, but something to find important in rooftops is communicating your workload. It's not nagging. It's not being a squeaky wheel. But when your position and honestly rev up says the whole it's a very fresh department that there's a lot of understanding about What do you even dio? Um, that means people don't have a great idea of what your job is filled with. And so when they give you something else to do, let's say, um, you know, they don't know how that works. And with the rest of your workload and so it's not ever to say Oh, no, that's not my job. But it's to say this is what I'm working on right now. I only have time for this amount of things. Is this the right priority? Um, and making sure that in the time that you are allowing for your work that you're getting the right things done. But that might not be everything, and I think that is an okay boundary to step.

What are major challenges and pain points in a job like yours? What approaches are effective in overcoming them? Discussing examples will help students learn better.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
sure. Um, you're communicating with all these different departments, right? And, um not to say people are living in buckets, but usually in certain fields, people share certain traits. And sometimes those traits clash. If you think of the typical engineer, the typical sales person, maybe one's more aggressive than the other. Maybe one's more analytical than the other, and this means that sometimes they just talk past each other. And so the exciting thing I think about red boxes you have tow talk, both languages, Um, and that's where the pain points happen. Right? Is there's this natural friction between these teams that you are voluntarily putting yourself in the center of it. Um, but I think it's cool because they're just quick winds there. When you see people be happier about their work and what they're doing, and that you allow them to spend more time on what they're good at versus just explaining it to others, it's really rewarding. And it happens a lot, especially in red bumps, because you're not usually just there is a mediator, your they're asking somebody to change. In the end, it's a ton of change management. So an example. I thought of WAAS. Um, I added a few fields in salesforce CRM for a sales person to fill out before they close one an opportunity. So that's how a salesperson traditionally handles their pipeline or their sale cycle. Eyes through CRM like Salesforce in an opportunity just toe put that terminology out there. And, uh, sales reps were asked for a ton of things in the Sierra because everybody wants to know what the customers saying. And the sales person is the only one that gets that luxury right? And so everyone from every part of the business is like, Oh, ask him this. Ask him this and the list ends up getting pretty long if you don't have, um, some boundaries set up about what's reasonable to ask a sales person for, um, And so, in my opinion, you need to be incredibly careful about what you ask for them, because eventually we'll start having an inverse relationship that the more you asked, the less accurate will be, the less they want to deal with you or do anything with you in the future. On DSO, it's always important to explain ultimately, how benefits them in the end. So I've added thes required fields for close one where they filled in, um, accounts payable email. And, um, what was it like, their payment terms if it was net 45. And initially, you know there's this. Oh, I don't wanna thought to more fields. There's already 20. And I explained, you know, once you fill this out, I've already set up this email notification that goes directly to accounting, and they will process this pain, and there won't be this back and forth like what They're used thio. And if you do your job right, you'll never have to interact with that person again. Because there was all this tension that was happening every time a deal closed of the county being, um, you know, frustrated because now there they can't do anything because they're like, Hey, guy, girl, you didn't You didn't include this in your contract. How am I supposed to build them and the sales person like, Ah, I just got done doing all the heavy lifting, and now you're asking for more. And so, by pushing this requirement earlier, creating automation, these two people don't need to talk anymore. And it's not in a, um a restricting way like, Oh, you don't want these people to interact with each other. But this way, when they interact with each other, it's, um, about more productive things than oh, I keep forgetting to ask about my payment terms in my contract, Um, and when you can overcome challenges like that job satisfaction goes up, your life's easier. Your sales people are spending more time selling, Um, and it all works out best for everybody.

What changes would you attempt in customer targeting, acquisition process, and marketing tools in the later growth phase? Why?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
mhm. So first it's always important to know your company strategy. You usually know what you want to go after, but that can change. It's not as easy as I want to go after the biggest and best customers all the time. Sometimes, let's say in an earlier stage company, you just want your number of accounts to go up because you want funding. And that's what VCs they're going to look at S O. That means you're offering ridiculous pricing, loose contracts. You're just really casting the net wide and seeing what you can get. Um, it's not very strategic, but you get your account numbers high and let's say that accomplishes it. So you're going for, you know, mass email marketing just broad, broad. Um, and there is loose restrictions on what you're selling, um, things like that. So then later in the process, you've gotten your funding. Now let's say it's all about your air are so that's a common term in in the SAS world of annual recurring revenue. So you want to show that you can get people in your contracts and that that revenue will keep coming in and you want that number to be high, right? Ah, high average error per customer. That takes a far different approach than the first one. Because now you need to make sure your contracts have some kind of teeth that takes a different, more sophisticated type of selling. Because you're not asking people now. Just like take a chance and you can cancel later. Now you're asking people commit to me and trust me for three years, so it takes a different type of sales person, different types of sales collateral, right? You're not trying to sell yourself now is through the, um, cheap, fast fixed. Now you're the strategic partner. Um, you're also looking for much more specific industries, you know, maybe selling to restaurants. Waas, a fast sell fast and easy cheap sale. But they churn really quickly and they don't bring in a lot of money. Let's say the ones that you really want are hotels. Um, the hotels, they have longer sales process. You wanna be more targeted if you're selling a big ticket product like this. Now you need to make sure that you're talking to someone that actually has decision making authority, not just somebody that can approve $100 contract. Um, everything becomes a lot more strategic. You're not doing these mass marketing campaigns. You're not just spending money on an inbound team to show a pre done deck that you'll show 100 times you're investing and really specific lead lists. Maybe trade shows better sales people that can have more educated conversations with these types of people. Um, you're investing in software that routes those calls to the right people so that you don't mess up that processor. Step on your toes at all. Everything becomes so much more sensitive. Um, and that changes everything. It changes your tools, your people, your processes.

How'd you hire, incentivize, and track the progress of your sales and marketing team including agencies and part-time workers to scale user base?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
sure, I'm guessing that the answer to this question is usually the same as mine, and that's as simple as dashboards. Um, it is a catch all for a good reason. Sales specifically are often very competitive, very number driven people. Um, and they thrive of having a live comparison on how they stack up against either their expectations, their goals or others, and dashboards allow that really live. Look at I'm doing well compared to my peers compared to what management's expectation of me is, it leaves the guesswork out. The best dashboards could do two things they can connected to the future to say, Hey, if you've made you know this many calls by this moment, you're on track to meet your clothes deal goals because we know if you make 200 calls that 100 of them will pick up, 20 of them will be interested, and one of them will be a closed deal by the end of the day. Something like that, Um, and the other great thing is, if you can tie to pay, people don't usually work for free red boxes, usually in charge of compensation as well. And if you have Ah, straightforward enough com plan, which can sometimes be hard. But if you do have one, you can tie in a dashboard someone's effort to a dollar amount. You know, when they sign a deal, you can automatically have it populated. So it says, you know, congratulations. You'll have 100 and $20 included on your next check for this, Um, and that has always been really helpful in incentivizing them and tracking their progress. And it also helps you because there's no questions about your math. They see it happening, live with you. Um, and ultimately it It focuses a sales team on doing what they're supposed to be doing instead of tracking their own numbers, right, you should be. You should be taking that out of their hands, making it in a more visual automated way so they could just do what they do best and keep checking in to make sure they're doing okay.

How do you manage conflicts within and across teams? How do you promote trust, openness and a healthy work culture? Sharing stories will greatly help.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
sure I love that This question was in here because I think that REB Ops, when done well, plays a gigantic role in company culture because you're setting how teams they're supposed to interact with each other, and that is culture. I think a lot of the reason why there's ever friction. There is the exact same as in our personal lives. And that's expectations that somebody expects the other person to do something or expects that they've been trained on something or that they even care. And, uh, our expectations are not always correct. Often maybe not correct. And so putting things out in a visible way helps negate that a lot. And like I said, red bumps is usually the person doing that. I had a great example of one of my past companies where you were selling a company on a certain level of volume, so you got paid as a percentage of what volume you were able to sell to them. Um, so the salesperson, they want that number obviously be as high as possible because that makes their payout as high as possible. But then there's another position We call them systems engineers, and they are responsible for maintaining that volume. You know, after the contract signed, the systems engineer sticks with that customer for their life for their lifetime, at least working with us. Um And so let's say that salesperson did hike up that original number so they could get a high payout that just dooms this systems engineer because they're never going to be able to keep to those numbers. And then their pay would tank write their goals, they would never meet them. And so really, we had to come up with a operating procedure of how are we going to get that number and what math or what rationale do both sides agree it's fair. And then the leaders from both groups signed off on it because if there in areas of gray, that leaves a lot of room for things to be personal, which means expectations are all over the map. But when things air, you know, a little bit more black and white, then we know exactly how the sales person got to that number. The systems engineer knows. Yeah, I agreed with that. I will hold myself accountable to that number for the life of the customer. and everyone just feels like they're doing their job. Not, you know, taking things personally and, uh, investigating things, I guess, taking things into their own hands when it's when a process is well established, those conflicts tend to fall away because there isn't anything to fight about. You already agreed, and it it is out there for everyone to see. The expectations were published, Um, and everybody's held accountable to him.

What skills and qualities do you look for while hiring? What kind of questions do you typically ask from candidates?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
Yes. So it's tricky. Um, I actually think in red box. It's It's a field where, um especially at entry level or lower level I having revolves experience is not that important. Um, like I said, it's a fresher field, So having it's first of all, kind of rare, Um, there is no degree for it. It is much more a way of thinking. It's, uh, caring about process, caring about efficiency, um, knowing how to communicate well with lots of different people. Lastly, knowing how Thio hold your own, um, red boxes often the voice of reason in very senior level groups, Um, I think that's why I forget. Careers can progress so quickly in revenue operations, is it? It can become such a highly visible role. And that means you're speaking with people that you know have very strong opinions about the way they're doing things. And maybe you have data that shows it's not the best way, and you need to be able to communicate that in a you know, empathetic way, but a concrete way. And those are skills that can come from anywhere. And so looking for certain experience isn't necessarily as important at a lower level. In fact, sometimes sales experience is really helpful because sometimes one of the hardest traits for a REV ops analyst or sales ops more sales enablement all falls under that umbrella is developing empathy towards a sales person. Um, sounds a little strange and against, you know, human nature, but you're calculating how much these people get paid, and it's always gonna be more than you. Sales is a lucrative field, but it's a high risk field. You're also helping them do their jobs, their your customer, and so sometimes that could become resentful to people. And when you already have the history of being a salesperson, sometimes they come in with a level of understanding about a sales person's challenges. And I don't have to teach or have to coach towards. You know, these are our roles, and we're all working towards the same greater good, Um, and then as faras a question I would ask, Um, she was on. Um oh, first would be why they're looking, You know, if if they're coming to a job, let's say it's not out of schools from a different job. You want to know why they're leaving, where they're at If if they had a problem with that company culture or part of their responsibilities from their job and they're just gonna walk right back into it at your company, with you in this role, it's gonna be a waste of everybody's time. So, you know, if they said I thought I was doing too much work in data on my last company and I really want to be more involved in process Um, let's see, I was looking to hire mostly a data analyst. Then that would kind of be the end for both of us, right? You don't want Thio hire someone that's gonna look for their next opportunity, right? Once they get here, Um, I think the last would just be I asked often what their preferred management style is. Um, you know, it's as much as I'm interviewing them. They should be interviewing me, and people prefer to be interacting with the law in different ways. Some people like, really clear ah, clear definitions of what success in that role is. Other people want, you know, set me free and let me dio what I think is best, right? And you want to make sure that you mesh with what that manager will be asking

Can you discuss career accomplishment(s) that you feel good about? Please discuss the problem context, your solution, and the impact you made.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
um so what is a career accomplishment? But I feel good about it's hard to narrow it down to one thing quite honestly. I feel really proud of every step that my career has taken. There have been a lot of moments where I have felt stuck or felt, Um, you know that I wouldn't find the next best fit, and I always prove myself wrong. And, um, you know, I continue to be able to look back and be happy about some of the more unfortunate things have happened in my career because, you know, hindsight's 2020 and you can see if that hadn't happened, that I would be able to be where I am now. And so I mean, I feel, I guess, just proud that I've made it to where I am at my point in my career is a director I, and ultimately hired for my judgment, kind of evolves throughout your career, where straight out of college, your you're hired for your willingness, quite honest, your excitement and your willingness to do what's being asked, and the next you get hired for your skill. Do you have the skill level needed to do the job, then do you have the experience to do the job? And at a certain point you get hired for your judgment. You know, no one's gonna look over what you do anymore. No one's going to tell you what to do anymore. You're going to get flopped down. You have to figure it out. You have to build a team. You have to decide what the problems are and how they're going to be addressed. And that's when people start hiring you for your judgment, and that's where my career has now gotten, and I'm incredibly proud of it.

What responsibilities and decisions did you handle? What were the top three priorities and pain points? What strategies were effective in dealing with challenges?

Based on experience at: Director, Sales & Revenue Operations, Archibus, Inc.
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
there it waas a little bit different Attn least faras revenue operations. So they acquired our company and they do something similar in the space, but with an acquisition. Even if you sell the exact same type of product, there's so much on the back end that's different. Your terminology is different. Your systems air different, your processes air different. Um and that is rev up. So basically everything that changes is in your wheelhouse on Do you have to bring people together so that when sales people talk to one another, they're using the same words their health of the same expectations. And then you can start doing the fun stuff, you know, of developing new things. Um, but in my time archivists, we had just barely been acquired. And we had Thio merge all of those things and then merge all the systems and the majority of my time was spent choosing what winds, right? So if there's two different ways, um, two different expectations to close a deal, for instance, what's gonna win? What makes sense and then applying the system to it, which takes, ah, lot of work, especially when on the other side they've been doing similar things for a lot longer than we had. Our sales team was used to being tossed around, um, in different directions. And so it's a delicate balance. And, um, you know, in my time there post merger, which was only I think some, like five months post merge until I ended up leaving. It was entirely dedicated Thio emerging those systems and processes.sure. Um, priority was getting us on the same system. So, um, first priority was talking in the same terms because we were just talking past each other, saying the same thing in two different ways. S I'd say I guess that was priority. Number one second was the process is So you now had combined sales. Teams that were going thio sell the same things, but they were on different com plans. They had different expectations of what they needed to close the deal. Different contracts different. Everything s so we had to decide. You know who what makes the most sense, which is me understanding how they did things. I already know how we did things and then deciding what we're going to do next. Um, so there's change management that comes along with that. All such things. And then I'd say the last priority, which ended up being where a book of the time was, was in the systems part, transitioning into all so transitioning all those terms and processes into a system. But then combining systems so big one is salesforce. But then there's all these other systems, like outreach, um, zendesk things like that where We had multiple licenses, right? Each company had they were operating just fine without the other. And now we're going to combine all of our software's, which is a very time intensive, delicate process, because, um, usually when you build these things, this is an example. I used to explain it. Uh, you know, you're let's say it's a planned neighborhood and you know, when the house is, they're going to go up. So you lay down all the pipe beforehand, right? It's It's a lot of work, but But it's okay. Then the city gets put on top of it and everything runs smoothly. So what we basically had to dio was there were two cities and everybody was driving between each other and nobody could stop. We can't stop selling. We can't stop taking care of customer requests, and we need to lay entirely new pipe underneath the city. Eso it's It's a very delicate process so that nothing breaks. You have to be so much more careful then how you honestly need to be in the startup world when you can really, you know, fail fast fixed fast. That is not an option any longer. You need to test. You need to be positive that every stakeholder is bought on, um and that this is the way we're going to do things before you pull the trigger. Before you, um, do anything, it takes a lot longer and yeah, I mean, it's just such a delicate process, and that was the largest priority and the largest pain point of my time there.

What college programs did you attend and what were their best parts? How did each of your college programs prepare you for your career?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
eso I went to Utah State University. Great college. Uh, and I was very gung ho when I was there. I immediately got involved in our specific colleges, student government. So for the college of business. And I thought that would be something interesting to do while I was there. But honestly, I was looking towards the future. I thought this would be where I found so many of my networking opportunities, how it would really be connected and stand out. And and potentially, I was Maybe, you know, when I got my first few jobs, maybe that impressed people in my resume. It's obviously nothing. I include anymore, but I never really ended up seeing a benefit from it. I mean, it was a great time, Um, but I didn't quite see it correlate to my future. But on the other hand, when I got to college, I was looking for friends. I had joined a sorority was zero intent that that would matter for my future. And it ended up playing a huge role. It was how I got that job at Goldman. They had ended up coming to our sorority too. Ask for women from there for the internship program, so I would have never been introduced. Introduced their HR without that, um, And then my next job after I left, Goldman was through our old adviser who is now in hr and and those were both connected to, ah, program that I never thought would matter for my future and ended up making a huge difference. I've also worked with people that I met through that. So I would just say any college program that can introduce you to people who are not like you or who you wouldn't have met organically as a positive thing. Um, because those connections air, you know, what I've made my whole career off of is just these people that I've known that have enjoyed working with me, trusted my work and brought me along for the ride.

What three life lessons have you learned over your career? If any, please also discuss your experiences facing adversity, or trying something unusual.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
I'm sure so. First one I wrote these down is that there's enough room for everybody to succeed. It's a cliche, but I feel like if you do want to go into something like sales and revenue ops, it's important to think about because it's a very small and developed developing discipline. Which means the career path is pretty much never going to be clear, especially if you're in a smaller stage company. Mostly cos I've been at, I've been through the first and sometimes only revenue ops presence at that company. And so if you're fighting with others that there's only one way for you to succeed it it's just not true. Um, where I found my success is you know, you you see the projects that get you excited or the ones that you know you're especially good at and you do those things and eventually the role just becomes your role just evolves. You know, I, um I don't think you should get yourself to competitive over a certain ranking. Um, because if you just do what you do, and you will do it great and you're the best at it Ah, whole new path ticket established for you. Um and so to not waste time thinking about, you know, if someone else's slices taking away from your pie Ah, the other thing. I thought of waas uh, Thio Oh, learn about the history and the skeletons. It's something that I think not enough people dio I think there's sometimes a lot of ego and what people work on that they want to come in and they know how to do everything the best way, the best practice way based up all your experience because that worked for you in the past. Rev. Ops is never that way. I've done some really cool things at one company and thought about doing it at another and realized that it would just crash and burn. Um, you know, different strategies worked for different sizes of businesses, different industries. Um, and so it takes a lot of trial and error. And if there's trial and error, you know, you don't need to spend all your time failing to find out. People have tried before you, most likely. And you should take that time to ask. Hey, has anybody ever tried anything like this? Oh, you did. Why Didn't work out and maybe you have a way that it could still work. But now you've saved yourself sometime by learning about these past mistakes, and it's very much a part of the culture that you have to kind of, uh, tug out in certain companies. Maybe people aren't open to talking about errors. They like to have an air of perfection. I try to create a culture of Let's talk about our mess ups. Let's talk about why they happened. We don't need to take ownership that it was your fault. But, like, have you done something that didn't work? Talk to me about it So we can learned from others mistakes for yourself and ultimately benefit yourself off others mistakes and move faster. Um, and then the last thing I had was to look out for yourself. S is something that I've I've seen it myself and took a lot Thio learn, Um, when I see in others all the time and what I mean is that the company was there before you got there, and it'll be there afterwards. Uh, that is not toe lesson. Someone's impact on where they're at. But I've seen people including myself, stay in situations that were either not in the direction I wanted my career to go. Not in the direction that I wanted my mental state to go by staying there, my emotional state. But I thought, Oh, you know, what are they going to do? They're gonna have such a hard time. Or that is not ultimately your problem. While you are at a company, be loyal. Work your hardest. Be your best self. Um, but remember that, you know, the company will go on. Things will be okay if you need to do what's best for you. Um, just to remember to look out for yourself and remember that it's a job and, uh, you come first is what's important. I'm sure that changes if you start your own company. That's your baby. You take a back seat, maybe to a bunch of your other priorities. But in most circumstances, um, yeah, look out for yourselfsure. Um, I I feel like I have grilled a lot of the places I've worked for to make sure that I will be a welcome presence on DSO. I mean, I face adversity, adversity in a lot of different conversations, but not as a ah culture. Not it's something. I feel the presence every day, which is great. Um, I try something unusual often. Sometimes you have to get really creative and doing things. Um, I I'm trying to think of some examples, but you know, it's right. It all comes down to building trust with the people that you're asking to change or to trust you with this unusual thing that you're throwing at them, right? If you're if you're thinking of doing something in a way, it's never been done before. That feels really unorthodox. If people trust you, they'll go along for the ride. If they trust that they can give you feedback that it's not working, they're willing to go for it. But if you make yourself you know, holier than thou and my way or the highway, no one's going to tell you when you do something unusual that like, wow, we really should have stayed doing things the way we did. So I try things unusual all the time, and I try to make sure that I bring an atmosphere of, you know, you're not a squeaky wheel. I will not take it personally. Let me know if this was affecting you in a negative way or if you have positive feedback, even better. But make sure that you're welcome space for, uh, feedback when you do something unusual. If you're going to do it, yeah.

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Sat Nov 21 2020
my my job's after internship and after my education, we're honestly unexpected, right? I I thought I would be in tourism marketing. That was where my fellowship waas not where I stayed, went into banking, didn't have any interest in banking honestly before then. Um, it was a great job. It was a prestigious job and I went for it on def. You have the ability to do that, go for it. Especially if you want to be in the start up world. Ultimately, the name of the place he works starts to matter, which is unfortunate. But I didn't go to an Ivy League school. I now work it cos no one's heard of for the most part. And sometimes it is nice that I have a name that even though I wasn't emotionally tied or super excited to be there, people recognize the name and they give it some clout. And that helps me get through the gate sometimes. So don't overlook, you know, during your time at something that may not seem like B biggest alignment to your passion, maybe it'll give you that legitimacy that you need down the line. Um, but other than that, I mean there are relatively few fields like I said, that can give lower level sales and operations experience other than just getting that. I think most hiring managers understand that. And they just want to look for someone who is a good thinker whose brain they want. Um and so as far as do is and don't since, you know, do let me see here do have to be yeah. Included in things that you find interesting. Like I said, these career paths and sometimes develop in ways that they weren't ever existing in before. Right? You you don't want to be stuck in up. It's just me and my manager. And so as long as my managers here, I got nowhere, you know, which is quite often the case in revenue operations. Um and also, people don't understand the field. And so, like, I touched on earlier to be vocal about what on earth revolves is doing. You know how you can help people always trying it back to how I help you, how the sales team is your customer. How the c suite is your customer? Um, and helping build that culture that you're there to help the business do better. And another one I had was Thio set the right boundaries with being friends with sales reps. Uh, in my department, this field specifically your interacting with the sales team in the marketing team a lot, and the sales teams often huge, um, and usually sales and revenue operations is speaking with managers with leadership in the sales space, not necessarily the reps directly. And we're both wanting the same things. You're wanting to help a sales person, and you want those easy wins. A sales person is in their lives, obviously, all day. They have a bunch of things that frustrate them. And when you have a relationship between the two, they don't feel like a squeaky wheel anymore. They feel like you know, they can talk to you about like, Hey, this has really been bugging me. Is there a way that we can auto fill this email that I have to write the same way 50 times a day? And you were just given the easiest project ever, right? You can do that. You can hear that thing, and you know, if you spend an hour of your day today, you're going to make 50 people's lifes better and create buy in for what revenue operations can provide. Um, and that type of interaction doesn't happen when there's not some kind of relationship there. And so creating that friendly space that you're not just the corporate person you know that that's at headquarters hugely benefit to you all throughout your career. Uh, and then my don't is just don't ever say that's not my job. It is me. And I'm sure so many other people's least favorite words, Um, or say that's how it's always been done. Those, I think, are my two, uh, like nails on a chalkboard. Phrases you know, it's OK to say That's not something I have capacity for or should that be a part of my priorities right now? But to say it's not your job? Honestly, a lot of revenue operations or things that are in other people's jobs, Um, and to say it's always how it's that's how it's always been done. That's an awful reason that leads toe awful habits, inefficient processes. Um, and it creates a culture of not being open to change. Um, and then the last one is incredibly cliche, and it's not burn bridges touched a few times on. You know how these relationships, working and personal have led to my career being where it iss Um, and that's because the world is small for me. Specifically, Utah's a small world, the SAS industry. So software is a service industry is small and then start ups even smaller. And then revenue operations and startups. You get to know absolutely everyone, and you cannot. Um, you cannot jeopardize having your name be known for another right reasons, and so make sure that those that interact with you have a good time doing so. And, um, it'll help everyone who knows what's next. You never know.