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How did you get to where you are today? What incidents and experiences shaped your career path? What inspired you to work on this startup idea?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
a very direct and clean and fast path to where I am today. I'm, uh I'm now a third time entrepreneur in, uh, technology, software driven businesses that are optimizing advertising. I started my 1st 1 25 years ago. I I got here because I've always had a passion around things that air new technology. But I actually ended up after school. Yeah, Following the path is a lawyer and working on essentially business side. And after working in the media industry, I watched that whole industry become disrupted by technology. And while I wasn't a technologist, at least I had a fluency in it. And I found the need for people that could sit between businesses and problems and and technology that could solve it. And so, um, that gave me confidence that, you know, there was value there, and, um, I started helping trying to create deals and partnerships between media companies and advertising companies and technologists, and I found them both whacking and both very myopic that the media companies saw themselves as as dominant significant businesses that needed to have people circle them and technologist saw things is everything has to be binary. And you need to understand what I'm doing, and I and I don't care about what you are. So I found myself coming finding a way to sort of negotiate them in between and literally I had some ideas and I ran into somebody on an elevator in Dallas, Texas, 25 years ago and he was wearing a name badge in a conference and he was a venture capitalist, and I pitched him an idea in an elevator over 14 floors. And while I did not get a deal done in that time and in fact he never invested in that first company idea, we became good friends. He is now went on to found one of the more important venture capital firms in the country or in the world. Union Square Ventures, which backed first money into Twitter and Tumbler and coin base. And companies like that and twilio. And so a bunch of really interesting in mongo, db and, uh and and I e got the confidence from that that I could start a company, and the ideas behind it are having worked in media and understanding what I could do. It was just, um, the business. My business today is about optimizing advertising on TV, and I worked in online advertising for years, so I was familiar with the problems.

What is the elevator pitch of your startup? What problem does it solve? How were your customers solving their pain point before your startup?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
Waas, the one I pitched on the 14th floor down Waas. I think that websites needs someone to build technology that will actually deliver ads is if it's direct marketing and change the ads, depending on who's watching it and that the company that does that also needs an organization to sell those ads because people that work for the companies that make the websites don't know how to sell complicated Mawr complex solutions like this. And, um, he liked the idea, but he couldn't get it funded, but I got it funded by others. Um, my business. Today, Simon Media actually does a similar thing, but for TV. And so it took about 20 years for these digital ideas to migrate into a large legacy ecosystem, because the problem is that while linear television, old fashioned television is quite far from dead, more than 100 million people in America watch about four hours a day. I mean 100 million households, about 300 million people, watched about four hours a day. We all get the same that by and large, and they are not scheduled in a way that understands what's the best you know, mathematical probability of who is going to watch and what they might want. And and so and being able to place ads on 120 different television networks is hard in an industry that works by handshakes, phone calls and faxes and log books. And so building a software an automated solution so that an advertiser like a dollar Shave club or Expedia can just say come to a dashboard CIA plan. Understand how they can optimize it? Have it distributed across 100 different companies have a dashboard to show how every single ad is being delivered everywhere in the country and how much is being viewed and then have that tie into how many people visit their website, download their app, make a purchase.them. They had to solve it with people they had. They had lots and lots of people in the television. That industry. Today, it spends about $8 billion on people that use phones and literally write things in log books or collect faxes to manage the transactions of television ad spots.

Can you walk us through your first few weeks when you started working on this project? How did things change over the next few months?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
I The first few weeks and first few months in my experience have been always pretty painful because everything is possible. So sometimes people, when they do start ups, they are in the middle of an intense, active market. They have a point solution to make a difference, and they just hit it. And then and then the question is, how do you evolve from there? Um, my startups in this one particularly. It was very anticipatory of a change that would come into the market that would take years to develop. And I we didn't know if it was two years or eight years and so so because you have to change behaviors, we have to say No, you don't want to do it by people and you want to do it by data, science and software. And so for those first few weeks, it's it's it's trying to solve a multidimensional problem. Which piece do I solve first? Who do I solve it for? What will it take to solve it? How much will it solve? How defensible is it? And and that that hurts the head

What were the challenges in building the initial team and how did you overcome them? How much time and resources did founding team members commit?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
question. Ideas are cheap and ideas are plentiful and ideas float around in your head. But execution is the much harder part and finding a team to execute through. And so I was fortunate with this startup that I had had another business before it, which we had sold to a large media company, Time Warner, which on day, well, at the time and so I I had about 100 people that worked for me in that start up, and I took about after having taken some time off to travel and spend time with family. I was ready to get going again, and so I immediately contacted four of the people who were not people that directly reported to me. I look for one more level down, the incoming ones that were less experienced but I thought were really ready to stretch both and product business development strategy, and I brought them together, and I just said, Look, there's a real opportunity here. Let's go do itI had the capacity to be able to fund the company so I could have them quit their jobs and and jump in, and they were all in. And so they you know, the most important commitment of their resource is was their time and their brain and their energy. And two of those four are still with me 12 years later. So, um and, um and ar by far still the hardest working people. And so, you know, I think the hardest the biggest resource is if someone's like soul, like their souls are in with mine into business.

How did your venture get its first professional funding? What were the challenges and how were they overcome? How'd your fundraising efforts change in subsequent rounds?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
we were able to get our first professional funding about four or five months in. Um, I was very fortunate having done several start ups and having the capacity to do some funding early. So that was a luxury that doesn't usually happen. Um, we had a venture to venture capital firms that had both where the principles have been invested with me before. So I also had the luxury of having a track record. And if you have a track record, that makes a big difference if if you have pay back before, um, one of the problems that happens sometimes is that you may get a little over funded early because, you know, when they do trust you, they want to make sure they own that they win with you. So, um, sometimes the hardest thing is not to take too much money early and make sure you stay really focused. And as and so there weren't too many challenges early, it was really making sure they understood how we were going to use the funds. Not it wasn't just a great idea. What would the product look like? What would be key technologies that we would use um, how would those technology uses solution to be different and better than alternatives in the market? Um, as far as how they changed over time, the with each step. Ideally, someone values your company more with each step. Hopefully, you have more proof points. And so, you know, businesses have a number of risks. It's sort of the way investors look. You have, ah management risk management team risk. Do you have a capacity to have a complete team? So at each level, you want to make sure you're completing the team. Do we really have the people that know the tech or no, the revenue are no. The operations, um, you have a market risk. We had a significant real time market product market fit risk because while we had a really big market and disruption, it was closed market. So in the TV advertising world, the advertising, most of the money goes from six or eight media buying agencies to about eight large TV companies. And so, while it's a big market being able to penetrate, that is a risk. The technology we were doing hadn't really been proven and we had access to a we had to get access toe data on how people view TVs, which was limited. So in each case, the big questions or what risks did you remove? So you remove your your data your data dependency risk? Did you remove your market risk? Did you remove some of your team risk? Did you remove your your financing risk? Because some companies are very expensive to operate? And so, while you may have funding for 18 months, if you haven't moved through an important next stage point, do you have that? Yeah, and then also early stage Investors tend to have funds that are small and it make small bets. And so as you go forward, you need to be adding people into your portfolio of investors that have bigger funds to take bigger risks. And and that's it's challenging because your businesses, and if that happens every 18 months, your business is never perfectly work up. You know, they don't all go high to the right every 18 months.

How did you set the scope for your minimal viable product? How did you get to product-market fit? How did your product evolve over time?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
this is the hardest, the hardest, hardest part of a tech entrepreneur. Um, I think product market, that is is the hardest. The hardest thing is not to take early signals that you've solved product market fit when you haven't, Um, because a lot of times, the first time you go into a meeting and someone says, Oh, that's exactly what I want. You think you've actually got product market fit And so you know, I would say we were I'm a big, big fan and adherent to Jeffrey Moore and crossing the chasm and truly understanding the whole product and what is required thio to satisfy, to deliver all of the benefits that your customer believes they are getting when they are buying your product and solving it not just for the innovators but solving it for the early adopters in the early majority. And so the challenge for us was we had three or four different potential points of entry into our our customer, and so we actually tested for years different different products to see where we could get a bigger hook into it, and some of it was a slightly different business models. A different delivery model, um, a slightly different customer set. And so, um, you know, we set, you know, we set the scope first. On what? How we imagine the market and what we imagine the customer would want. Then it's a matter of getting feedback when you start entering the market. We were fortunate that we penetrated a single vertical, which was television companies promoting their TV shows on other television companies. With that, so it was television companies as advertisers. We actually we actually got our product market fit almost 11 years ago. We tested it in a small and small cases, and we scaled it. And that is still our largest, um, customer vertical today. What happened for us was we tried to extend it. We tried to take it to general advertisers to a Taco Bell to, ah Dollar Shave Club to an Expedia to, ah, Home Depot, and they came in. They had a different expectation. They had a different belief in what they needed, so so they needed higher proof points. The analytics were different. The performance metrics were different, and even though many with you, it was the same TV advertising product. When you work in different verticals you sometimes find it's a quite different. It's a quite different product or mix of product or business model. And you know, for us the way it's evolved over time. Waas. I thought the core benefit that would be sought would be effectiveness, that people would want their ads to be more effective. Thanks. Yeah, that that I'm going to get a better return out of every dollar I spend on advertising. Okay, now what's problem is that a lot of companies and large enterprises are incented for efficiency, not effectiveness there, because corporate procurement says this work. So just take the cost of doing it down, not the effectiveness up. And so so one of the big issues for us over time was finding a way to balance and efficiency and effectiveness. And and that meant we had to bring a lot of automation to the process so that not only could we deliver a better product, but we had to make it very efficient for them to work with us, because if we didn't have efficiency, we couldn't get the buy in. And and that meant and I think this is not unlike what Jeffrey Moore talks about. When you start wanting to get the early majority, you have to have a Mork complete their timid. That and certainly the late majority and the laggards were very timid. And so they follow their followers, not leaders. And so you have to de risk how they go in and so so that to me, is the biggest thing about the product. Evolution over time for any company is being successful is you are going from it being super innovative to becoming blunt, blunter and simpler and more efficient. And so it's interesting, I would you know. One thing that I wouldn't have expected was the precision of the data science they expected in the robustness of the Analects. Reporting have gone down, so we've had to simplify it and build it Algorithmic Lee in So they don't see it. But but fundamentally, the innovators really cared about being aske close to perfect as possible. And as you go later, you give up a lot of perfect nous to get more simplicity and easier, less friction

Who were your early users? What marketing channels, approaches, and marketing tools did you use to contact users? What worked and what didn't?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
a zai. As I mentioned that we had a television companies advertising their own shows on other shows. Another networks became our early customers and and one of the reasons they became them was that for people that believe we didn't have to sell them on the value of TV advertising because they believed in TV and they actually really believed in effectiveness. Because if you're a market or to TV company, you wake up every morning reading what they call the overnights, which are your ratings from this company Nielsen your Nielsen ratings. And if your numbers don't move up, if there aren't good numbers, then you get fired. So there was a real incentive for them to make every dollar they spend work better. And we had a system that ingested anonymous viewing data from set top boxes from cable companies and TV smart TVs, where you tracked how people watch TV every second so we could build models to know exactly what people watched what they liked. We could build imputation models to sort of project that to everybody else, and we could guess where we were going to find them, and then we could make sure to deliver a spot several days before a TV show would be aired. We would know if they saw the spot. We would know if they saw this show, so we would know a conversion like Digital and eso it solve the problem that they had always had a so faras reaching them we were in. In an industry that is not accessible except through relationships, this is a very isolated It's, you know, to use the word COBOL would not be improper or cartel like so it's a very, very isolated industry where it is truly a handshake and a phone call relationship. So So we had to go through relationships, and it meant establishing trust with people who were trusted. Um um, Now how that's evolved to today, you know, the most exciting and important companies that are using TV advertising or premium video advertising. Today, our digital born cos they frequently want to go direct to consumer and market directly, and that's a whole different world. If their digital first, they're not relationship driven. And now you need to use, um, yeah, and now more and mawr, you need to use things like search engine optimization and search engine marketing you you where we would have to use a lot of conferences, industry conferences to get people. Now it's more about creating content and content marketing in case studies, and now they need to be simpler and more impactful, like data visualizations and show what I call the hero's journey. But you need to show it in 18 words with a couple great pictures and have them come in in, um, or digital way and really from, UM, or account based marketing lead generation engine demand engine.

How'd you hire, incentivize, and track the progress of your sales and marketing team including agencies and part-time workers to scale user base?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
It's hard. You early on you, you know, you know, you really need to find people first. I think it's really good to understand the kind of you have to understand the kind of person you're trying to get to in the challenges. And so for us, we need to find people with relationships first. When companies air young, you need to incent them a lot on conquest ing on finding their way in, and so it tends to be heavier on a commission incentive basis. But I would say most importantly before anything, it's you need to get people that are mission driven because people will work first. My my experience has been the problems they get to solve. That's the number one thing. So you want it find people. And the nice thing with trust with TV is everyone watches TV and you talk to people and say, Don't the ads on TV suck like they're really bad right there, like, Yeah, I said, Don't you want to fix this? Don't you wish you could bring riel data science and software to it? So if you can find people that are mission driven, the second thing is who they work with. So then they wanna work with other people that feel like them, so that builds on it. And then third, the compensation is there, and they want to be fairly compensated for it. But But I find the people that work on the bottom first and the top last lose because they hire people that want money. But they don't hire people that want to solve a mission, and particularly for me, when they take longer, you it's it's hard. You have to hurry up and wait. So you say Run, run, run! Oh, okay, it's coming soon. Run, run, run! It's coming soon and so that becomes really important. And it's also difficulty to do that through agencies in part time workers because they can't share the mission, be part of the team, feel the emotional connection. Yeah, so So my companies that have always been typically started really early on. The hope that something will happen in the future is never worked well with agencies and part time workers. We need people that are a little crazy about the problem and are all about doing it together.

Who were your competitors when you started and how did the competition evolve? How did you create a competitive advantage and a unique selling proposition?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
it was initially were the classic management of TV selling. So the TV companies selling their own ads and they viewed us as competitive because they didn't think they needed to improve. So it was a classic innovator's dilemma, which is even if you're right and unit. That sounds right. If we let you get started, you are gonna undermine our business. And so that was hard. That was why actually we got lucky because I didn't plan it this way that by winning over their own marketing teams, we actually got inside the Borg. We got inside the TV companies through their own marketers, and it made it hard for their sellers to push back on us or their agencies. Then the media, buying agencies that do things with people and spreadsheets and phone calls and faxes felt very threatened by us, and they use their scale and their control of the clients to keep us out. And what I like to say is it was like we were attacking the Citadel. So you just have to have this idea. It's a game or a movie, and those really, really thick wooden doors there. Yeah, you're pounding against impounding against impounding and And you have to tell your team You just hit it in. One of these days is cracking. You don't know it's cracking. You don't realize there's fissures in the rocks, but you have to stay with it and stay with it and stay with it and stay with it, and at some point it will crack. And then we eventually started seeing cracks, and we found places that we could go in. And you know, we had an industry that did not want to accept that you could do it better. And so the way we fundamentally could prove a competitive advantage and and and establish it is was being of the deliver self evident results. So when you can actually marshall the data to show how much better one TV added and delivering sales at a store or download oven app and directly linked them in such a way, they all started then trying to copy solutions. But we had the advantage of that. Each TV company represented at most 20% or 10% or 5% of all inventory, and we always have worked across the entire industry. So our competitive advantage increasingly became, we aggregated the fragmented market and they had point solutions and their customers could only by their solution in one place, and we could sell it in all places.

What were the major exciting and memorable moments? Were there also any moments that almost got you to quit? How did you get past them?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
so the memorable moments are usually when the deals get closed. Because and I just was speaking with my engineering leads about this today, and he said, I don't like that we're always focused on revenue numbers. Can't we be focused on product metrics? I said, yes, we're but the dollars or what pays for the product and their value of the product is and we get better and better and associating those in providing context. And so you know, the memorable moments are tend to be around both some big deals getting done that validated the product or a great result, like having the client share their cells, results with us and to see how well, like those are things that are celebrated also product releases. I think you know, one of the challenges and software development is that, you know, great software can take a long time to ship. And I mean, I came originally out of the world of package software, so that really took a long time to ship. But so, you know, having the first time you could have an interface that people could look at the first time they could track results in real time. The first time a major client took a really chance with us like those were things that were celebrated and you really have to celebrate them a lot and you have to celebrate your customer. Success is because the time in between is erratic and you don't know. And you know, one of the things when it comes to recruiting and hiring. I've tended to recruit a fair amount of people that have backgrounds in and athletics and in sport and in team sports. And one of the reasons I like to do that is I find that there are people that know you have a lot of practicing before you play that it's hard, it's super hard and you have to get better every single day. And then you have to really get ready for game time, and it doesn't always work. But if you if you're particularly looking at team based sports, you have to depend on each lots of others different than an individual sport, like diving or tennis. Let's say and then sometimes you have dramatic failure and you have to pick yourself up from that dramatic failure and then you have to start at the bottom and go all. And so I've tried to always sort of view it that way. And, yes, there's many times where you know the product did not work. Clients fired us because the solution did not turn out as we had hoped. Um, it's hard not to get excited in oversells, sometimes early on in the company. And, um and you know, the only way to get through it is you just have toe you sort of brush off. You get the team together and you say, Let's let's learn from this. You can't point fingers you can't blame and it doesn't mean you don't want to allocate responsibility and measure and accountability. But it means you can't make it personal, and then you have to just set, then milestones that say we're gonna It's going to take five steps for us to get out of here. Here's the five. Let's focus on going through those and celebrate movement in each of those five, not just the fifth

What responsibilities and decisions did you handle? What were the top three priorities and pain points? What strategies were effective in dealing with challenges?

Based on experience at: EVP, Global Advertising Strategy, AOL
Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
you know, my my my robe primarily was number one a o. L had never been an ad supported business. A o l was a subscription supported business off of a dialogue that also had and advertising business attached to it. And so, um, the company had never dealt with What does it really mean to be free content and ad supported. And so, you know, it was everything from looking across all of the services and really determining out of 83 or 86 different products that we had consumer products, What waas the advertising profit loss of each one. And that was very hard because there were lots of compromises done along the way that happened. And then how do we deal with what was very much a laggard company and brand and it was losing position in the market. How do we try to leapfrog at that point? The competition was yahoo and, uh, primarily, and Microsoft, MSN and Google did not have the premium display business and trying to beat them with a premium display business. And and so, you know, number one was What's our strategy number And number two is How do you start communicating and implementing that. So So it was everything from going to Wall Street because because the a O. L had a huge impact on the Time Warner valuations. No, it was everything from going there to the major investor conferences and talking about the company and talking to investors talking to the leaders who are gonna have to tell the people to do different things. Um, counseling the executives as to what what we would do and so that the the inside the priorities will get the strategy evangelizing, communicate and gained by in and then three was execute and and the biggest pain point there was there wasn't. The only way to do it was to blow up a lot of things. And so, you know, it was actually, in some ways an easier innovator dilemma than some had because we didn't have such a healthy business that we didn't want to attack it. And I was very, very hard for a lot of people to deal with that. And, uh, you know, I you know, I don't know that I was that effective and fundamentally dealing with all of those challenges. Because in the end, um the leadership decided to take a path that I thought was not the right path, and I had the good fortune of having sold my business for cash. And I quit because I didn't believe in following a wrong strategy, and I did not have to work there, so I didn't. I worked there because I wanted to. I was mission driven and I said, I'll stay as long as we stay on the strategy And And the company decided that they wanted to get into the Social Net, the social ad business and the social network business, and they bought a A company for almost a billion dollars called Bebo, and I thought that was off strategy. I thought it would be a failure. I thought it would. It would be it would be crossed purposes to what we needed to Dio. And two years later, after spending $835 million for Bebo, they sold it for five million. So at least I would say that I was sort of proven out on that, Um so you can't always What I've learned is in my startups, it's easier to solve problems because you don't have you. You can compromise with your smaller team that is focused on change and innovation, applying changing innovation in tow. Large enterprises, I learned, is really, really hard. And I don't I understand why they brought Bebo, and I think that there were some reasons why I could have made sense. So I won't. I'm not saying they totally screwed up by doing it. But the point is, um, things that work in a nimble start. Tech driven startups don't always work in large legacy enterprises.

What college programs did you attend and what were their best parts? How did each of your college programs prepare you for your career?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
I remember them well. So, um, I'll break up my my undergraduate into two parts just because I started Undergraduate is an engineer because I really had a passion for math and science, and I actually had this idea that engineering would be a little bit more about science and not just math and and so the better part of a year. And I decided we were on on quarters them. So I did a couple trimesters, as we call them in Penn State. And I, uh I love the engineering courses, but I love my liberal arts courses more, and I loved and I come. I came from a a small town that we didn't have strong liberal arts, So reading books and learning these things were more passionate, I will say, though it's interesting the course that probably was my most fun course that well, it was an organic chemistry for engineering course that I took, and the whole thing was solving real world problem solving like an actual problem. And it would be like, um, our essay questions would be You have a canister with a certain amount of methane in it. Inside the building of this size, The canister is open. It's an ex temperature. Um, in 10 seconds, like what would be the combustibility and the killer jewels on each corner? Point of the explosiveness of the methane, depending on three different levels of oxygen concentration. And so, to me, the idea that you could deconstructive and let me, you know, we had learned, How do you do that? And I thought that was something I had never sort of thought through. That you could take this sort of complex way and solve it. And I thought my organic chemistry was gonna be getting a little models of putting a little. But it turns out my professor happened to have been the person that enveloped the RDX explosive in 1940 for World War Two. And so that was what he came back as an 85 year old emeritus professor. So that, like seeing someone who had done really life work like that I didn't stay, is an engineer, but that's stayed with me for so long. I then went into law and and what I liked about Law and that I think really helps me today and has really helped is on is There's an analytical framework you know there is. There is an analytical framework about tax and capturing fax and then analyzing those facts and then synthesizing that analysis and then coming to conclusions and then creating arguments around those conclusions to persuade others. And so I do that every day, and I think that that gave me a true like a love and understanding of empiricism. And so I found early on I was able to, even though the only software I've ever written in my life was back in 1980 I wrote a couple computer pro games on our on Radio Shack TRS 80 model to with cassette tape drives. Um, I was ableto have certain fluency with engineers, um, and scientists, because I can. I didn't I don't know their algorithms, but I could. I could go through a logical framework flow with them, and and so I think I'm probably unusual and that I don't think many technology companies going forward will be started and run by non technical founders. I I would be the first to say that I think that I have a real gap because I don't have engineering or computer science or physics or or I don't. You know, my my my part of one here didn't get me, quite frankly enough that I needed, But I have an appreciation for it. And that's if you know, you know, if, uh if I go back for, you know, after this coming, if I go back for schooling at some point, I I do have this. I do have this, um, you know, the this one idea that maybe I'll go back and, you know, study physics or something like that. I do have Feinman on physics. I bought all the about the textbooks and, um and I've actually watched. I've been watching some of the videos there on YouTube from the 19 sixties of his lectures, which I think are just unbelievable. So

What three life lessons have you learned over your career? If any, please also discuss your experiences facing adversity, or trying something unusual.

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
life lessons is be nice. The number of times that a client customer partner colleague will help you out of a problem is 100% correlated to how nice you are. And no matter what you do along the way, you're going to have problems and you're going to need help and and and being a jerk and and being you know, and and, you know, I could use lots of other words. But like, you know, being being bad and not being nice, Um, and taking the wrong decision and being doing things that are more on the edge of ethics or morality or whatever that would be, um um, you know what I would say? Someone says, How do you put that in doctrine? And I used to say, Well, it's like I talked to my mother on the phone, like in between meetings. Sometimes I'll call her up for five minutes when I'm walking blocks in New York or 10 minutes, and I feel like I never want to do anything that I would be embarrassed to tell my mother about, like one of those phone calls. And so I think being nice, um, hard work and perseverance. You know you it. You know, sometimes things happen quickly and you get lucky. But luck is the residue of design, and I think hard work and perseverance um, make it goes. It goes so far and and then realizing that, you know, and part of that is that there's always tomorrow, like it's never as bad as you probably think it is. And sometimes a walking away and good night's sleep or or or something, um, will make a difference. And then I think the final thing is that it is part of sort of being mission driven is you have tow. You have to see a bigger picture. You have to you have to see something bigger than this and it can't be about. I mean, the economics are wonderful, and it's great if that's ah aligning factor that helps you bring investors, and it helps you pay people, but but you have to be focused on something bigger than just the money

What starting job (after internship) would you recommend to students who hope to grow professionally like you? What other parting advice, dos, and don'ts would you give?

Summarized By: Jeff Musk on Wed Oct 14 2020
right pick your boss is not your job. So I think I think having the right bosses early and your first bosses that are people that are mentoring people that push you people that explain things to you, people that give you context is much more important. The most thing is, don't do not. Do not do not chase the money on your first job unless you have to. And I mean, I had student loans. I had significant student loans coming out of school. So I know the need. And I took a really high paid job when I came out of graduate school and it was not the best job for me. Eso So I think it's pick your boss, Um, pick how much pick a job that is, that is going to really push you. So take if you could get lesser money and a better job and more responsibility and and and that's and that's important. And, you know, I would say, you know that and and I don't mind if it's not a straight line, like I think that today, particularly when I first started my professional career, the rule of thumb was that if you hadn't been in a company 4 to 5 years, you were. You were a red flag problem. I now red flag people if they've been in a place more than five years. And so I love to see the diversity of, like, 1.5 2 year jobs, things like that or or nice movements. And, you know, the other thing is, I just think that being in jobs where you're working with numbers and empiricism and things that are more measurable are really, really important. And so I really council people towards those kinds of jobs early.