Yeah, I had. I think like a lot of people e had sort of a winding path to get to where I am, uh, turned it off more on the technical side of things. I originally got a degree in computer science. I kind of planned on working Maurin that space in the product space. And I did that for several years and over time I wanted to explore MAWR to design and use your experience, and and that kind of led me to work on a few startups along the way, develops, um, products. And that got me more and more interested over time and strategy. And it was third of the idea that I wanted Thio get to the root of problems as opposed Thio always sort of thinking about or treating maybe the symptoms of problems that I was seeing and old or with other businesses. And yeah, so that's kind of when I When I really got into brand strategy and marketing strategy, I found it was a great way to tap into all my interests from human psychology to design to unpacking technical problems and just sort of being ableto play in all of those different areas at the same time. So that's that's kind of how I've gotten to this to this point, and it's giving me a lot of opportunities to work on some cool, cool problems with some cool companies.

Yeah. I mean, I think you know, early on, uh, when starting map and fire, Uh, I was previously working at an agency, and, you know, it was a good opportunity to start fresh. It was an opportunity to create something that was, uh, really coming from the values and the things that I really believed in. Um, and, you know, so I think when you come into a new experience like that, you have a lot of big ideas around things that you want to accomplish. Um, you know, I think in the first few weeks you're sort of hit with some of the realities of what that's actually going to be like. You know, you actually have to get out there and find, you know, your first customers and I started mapping fire with another partner. And so we spent the first, uh, you know, those first weeks and months, really, Just trying to get our hands dirty and, like, get, get, get our first clients in the door. And, you know, I think that was sort of the not the wake up call, but it was the reality again of recognizing that it's not just about the work that you that you want to do. But it's about running a business. It's about all of the things around the work that you have to be thinking about. And I think over those months that was where we had to do. A lot of growing was, you know, really developing a business and not just thinking about doing great work, which is important. But again, unless you have great work and great thanks to work on, then you know all the skills in your field won't be necessarily applied to anything, so yeah.

um well, I'm definitely the things that I'm drawn to. Our I'm really into psychology. I'm really into trying to understand, um, how people think and behave. You know, when we when we talk about brand work and marketing work, you know, at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is connect with people. And, you know, of all the problems I think you can solve in the world, trying to understand people to me continues to be the most interesting and complex problem to solve. Um, so I like frameworks that help unpack how we think and behave. And one of my favorites is a framework called Jobs to be done, which is something that's developed by some very smart people at Harvard. Clayton Christensen, who wrote the book The Innovator's Dilemma. Bob Weston, who went on to his, continued to do a lot of great consulting work. They developed this framework, and it's it's really designed to help you understand the motivation and behaviors and the outcomes that people are seeking when they're when they have a problem in their life. You know, they call it a job, but it's like, ultimately, like a problem or need that you're trying to satisfy in your life. And that's a framework we use in all of our work. You know, when we are trying to get our clients to separate their thoughts about the offering or the product that they're creating and really understand fundamentally. What what do your customers need? What are they seeking out? Like, What's that unfulfilled desire that helping to satisfy s? Oh, that's a big one that we use consistently with all of our work, Yeah.